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High Hold Point High POI???

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by jbmOU, Feb 4, 2008.

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  1. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    I hold my gun several feet above the house when shooting. I was just wondering if it is desireable to have a high POI for this style of shooting, or are you better off with a fairly flat POI. Thanks in advance
     
  2. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    I know that it is mostly a personal preference, I am just hoping to get some ideas and see what the majority of shooters use (and hopefully not screw up my shooting even more).
     
  3. IM390

    IM390 Member

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    Try finding and reading "Shooting with the Remington Pros" By D Lee Braun. He talked of aiming high back in the 60's because by doing so you minimize the amount of swing to reach your target. It works great, espcially, in bad weather because you don't need to compensate for wind, rain or dancing targets. The down side is you may lose sight of the angle the target is using as it comes out of the house or you may lost sight of it completely as it travels under your barrel. This is especially true for one eyed shooters.
     
  4. bigben

    bigben Active Member

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    Holding a higher gun with a high impact has many merits, much less gun movement, a higher impacting gun is easier to shoot, you don't have to barrel-shoot a target to hit it, thus losing the sight of the target as you are firing, as far as the inability to see the target as it comes out of the house, if you want to shoot the traphouse fine, look at it if you want to hit targets, WAIT with quiet eyes over the gun until the target clears your rib, you will then see a clear, hitable shootable target, a slight over over to it and it is dispatched! by waiting for the target to clear the gun, your elapsed time to aquire, move to and smoke a target is minimized, thus when done correctly, a much quicker call to smoked target is the result. incinerate em!
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hold point should be designed so that you can quickly see the target leave the house and determine the flight path. Most two eyed shooters hold a high gun in a manner where the barrel does not block the view of the target leaving the house. One eyed shooters typically hold a lower gun.

    The POI should be set so that the gun shoots where you are looking.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    My gun shoots about 21 inches high and I hold on the house. I occasionally break a good score.
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Phil- I also hold on the house and my gun shoots +-22 inches high. How come my gun does not break the scores your gun breaks? Do you suppose it could be the shells?

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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  9. hairy

    hairy TS Member

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    Mr Kiner, Bob M says he got you to hold down on the house...true?
     
  10. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Well at least I'm doing something right. I hold on the house at the 27 and a foot to 1.5 feet above the house, at the 16, and my gun shoots about 21" high. WOW---I've figured it out! Now, if I could only shoot some good scores.
     
  11. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    I do not shoot too fast, I shoot when the target is almost at the top of it arc. For singles I hold 2-3ft above the house and can usually break consistently good scores. In Long yardage Handicap I Hold about 6" off of the roof and can not shoot consistently at all.

    Thanks For the information so far, keep it coming!
     
  12. backfenceata

    backfenceata TS Member

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    Phil, please help Pat, as he is 1 in. off on his POI. Where is Neil ? He can help out on the correct shell for Pat(all in jest,OK) Kirk
     
  13. nomoloscofoso

    nomoloscofoso Member

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    Hey guy's

    How in the world do you get that high of a pattern??? I'd just like to get 10"!

    I really don't want to bend things!
     
  14. FLAKETM

    FLAKETM TS Member

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    Phil, are you holding down on the house at the 16, too? - Guy Coates.

    You folks who are holding high to avoid vertical movement: Are you moving your guns as you see the target direction sted of waiting for bird to appear above barrel? Just curious. You folks must really be fast shooters with great control. Wish I had it.
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    about an inch and and a half. (edited result)

    Neil
     
  16. FLAKETM

    FLAKETM TS Member

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    Doda, Neil: Maybe I'm thick but I don't quite understand what was meant: Do you mean the difference in barrel movement holding 18 inches above the roof as compared to holding on the back side of the roof? Apc a tad more explanation and thanks.
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    flaketm, I read doda's question as "What is the difference, in inches from the ground, between a gun muzzle which points at the front edge of the roof of the trap house and one which points at a spot in space eighteen inches above that?"

    There are lots of way to do it, and the way I did it will not be supported by many here since they will be thinking of this problem as being related to aiming, but it's not. The difference is but a three-sixteenth of an inch inch, but I think my figure is closer than the one they may propose.

    Now mount the gun on a stand with the rear part of the stock in a hook-and-eye pivot locked to the stand so the muzzle can be raised and lowered while the recoil pad stays in the same place on the stand, just as it does on the shooter's shoulder.

    Here's the first complication - the result depends on the relative heights of the shooter and the roof of the traphouse. Ideally they would be the same height, (the taller the house and the shorter the shooter the smaller will be the calculated difference) but since the gun's only about half a yard above the ideal equal height, we'll ignore this detail, recognizing that our final figure will be a little too large.

    Most calculations of this sort would call the gun about a yard long, but as you imagine the stand you will see that it should be thought of as more like 48 inches. (It's more than that; my gun barely fits in a 52-inch case, but this simplification will lead to a small error in the opposite direction to the previous one, so we'll hope for a tradeoff.)

    The assumed yard-line will be the 16, though doda didn't say. The end of the gun is closer, so we'll put at at the 15 yard line. When we recalculate this from farther back, the calculated result will be smaller.

    Forty-eight inches is a yard and a third.

    So the relationship between distances at the house and distance at the end of the gun is as 15 is to 1.3, or a factor of about 11 1/2 to the precision we are doing this. In other words, an inch at the house represents about the reciprocal of 11.5 or 0.086 inches. And eighteen of them is a bit over an inch and a half.

    Go back to the 27 (muzzle at 26) and it's just 0.9 inches, more or less.

    Neil
     
  18. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Hairy-- Bob taught me everything I know about handicap (and women).

    Russ25-- If you shoot at the peak there is a good chance you will need a gun that shoots lower than mine. But if you are waiting till they peak you are waiting too long.

    Flaketm - Yes I am holding on the house for singles- but that is what works for me- you should hold where it works best for you. Having said that it does not hurt to experiment occasional to find what works. I also move my hold up and down depending on the wind/targets.

    JBM- your gun probably shoots too low
     
  19. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    Thanks for the information, I have decided to start looking around for a new trap gun with an adjustable rib and comb.
     
  20. FLAKETM

    FLAKETM TS Member

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    I was just curious, Phil. I've tried both for lengthy periods of time. Get about same results. Now shooting high hold because it's less movement for my aging body -- except on real windy days when target seems to go straight up.
     
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