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Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by zimmie, May 19, 2010.

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  1. zimmie

    zimmie Active Member

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    Don, what is the scoop on the central zone shoot at JAQUAS.

    zimmie
     
  2. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    zimmie, The ball is in the zone's VP's court. Don said he'll know something real soon and he'll post it here. I think he's making subs right now and too busy to read TS.com.

    Brad
     
  3. zimmie

    zimmie Active Member

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  4. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Zimmie, it's on the Jaqua's web page that the central zone shoot has been cancelled. It's now plan B time. Brad
     
  5. DuckDog

    DuckDog Active Member

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    Zimmie,

    Yes, the ATA Central Zone Shoot at Jaqua's has been cancelled. The decision was a difficult one for the Jaqua-Ranzau family. In the end, the mistreatment by the ATA was just too much to ignor. The ATA immediately turned to Cardinal Center, only to be turned down there as well. Apparently the ATA did not remember that in 2006 they told Cardinal Center the Central Zone host sites were booked 8 years in advance. Lets hope that the ATA resolves this problem so no other club is faced with this situation in the future. And just for the record, as of this morning no ATA official has even bothered to contact Jaqua's about the cancellation. Apparently they simply do not care. What a shame!

    Don Cogan
     
  6. matttrapn

    matttrapn Active Member

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    Wait a minute. DuckDog, you just said:

    "Apparently the ATA did not remember that in 2006 they told Cardinal Center the Central Zone host sites were booked 8 years in advance".

    Soo, does this meen the Cardinal Center went to the ATA in 2006, and asked if they could host a Centeral Zone shoot? Also, what has taken place with the eight-year wait?

    I can understand adding another facitlity to this Zone, but why did the "new-guy" on the block get put into the first position of rotation, and the very next year draw another host position?

    Will IL., have a "host" position from now forward?

    I will use this thread to voice another questionas well.

    What the heck is up with getting a camp-site/lot at this years Grand American? My group and I can't even get them to answer the phone.........

    Please help me to understand,

    Matt Nicol
     
  7. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Where is Big Don when you need him!? Tom Rhoads
     
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Why does trapshooting have to be so...so....complicated??!!!
     
  9. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Just lurking here. Packing for the Great Lakes Grand. Saying screw the Central Zone, it is going to be a IL shoot from here on out. From what I hear MI is going to pass on it next year. MI has scheduled a Handicap Money Shoot for July 16-18 this year, more fun then going to IL. Then the Grand.

    The Jaqua's and the Ranzau's have been friends to tons of shooters for many years and they don't deserve to be treated this way. The Central Zone committee needs their butt kicked over this and they will rue the day that they made this decision and treated this fine family with such distain.

    Matt there is supposed to be a new young lady in charge of the camping now so give it another chance.

    Don
     
  10. zimmie

    zimmie Active Member

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    Don,
    Have they set a date for the money shoot this fall, will it be after the fall team shoot at mason.
    Zimmie
     
  11. Maumee River Rat

    Maumee River Rat Member

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    W.T.F. Who invitied Illinois into our rotation in the first place? Ed Saneholtz
     
  12. DuckDog

    DuckDog Active Member

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    I believe it was during the 2006 Grand American, the ATA Central Zone delegates decided to reduce the number of Central Zone host sites from 4 to 3. To that end, Illinois was added to the longstanding Indiana, Michigan and Ohio rotation. In 2007, Mason MI hosted a great Central Zone shoot but the shoot was held during the second week in June. In 2008 the dates were moved back to the first weekend in August and the shoot was held at St. Joe G.C. in Indiana. St. Joe is a wonderful club and we had a ball shooting there, but the shoot attendance was much lower than it was at Mason in June of 2007. Jaqua's requested to host the Central Zone in 2009 not knowing about the change to a four state rotation. Jaqua's was told that Illinois would be the only state allowed to host in 2009 and that if Jaqua's was added as a host site in 2009 it would hurt attendance at Brittany Park. Now comes 2010. Jaqua's again requests to host and are granted the shoot. Around March 22, 2010 Jaqua's finds out from a target vendor that they are co-hosting with Brittany Park. The Ohio ATA Delegate and the ATA Central Zone VP tell Jaqua's not to worry because the Brittany Park host site will not effect the number of shooters at Jaqua's. Interesting!

    I feel bad for my shooting friends like BigDon and Dave Berlet. To Don and Dave the Grand American is the culmination of their shooting season and that makes the ATA Central Zone shoot an important shoot to them. For shooters that are not planning to attend the Grand the Central Zone shoot becomes just another shoot. In this day of hard economic times, more and more shooters are forced to consider what shoots are most important to them and plan their schedule accordinly. Given that roughly 160 shooters from Ohio attended the Grand last year, I can't help but think that the ATA Central Zone shoot has run it's course in Ohio. If a club can only host a shoot once every 4 years it would be almost impossible to build a shooter base for it. Perhaps by allowing Brittany Park to host every year they will be able to build a base and have a great shoot each year.

    See everyone at the Great Lakes Grand!
    Don
     
  13. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Duckdog, The zone shoot has been dieing since it went telephonic. No way is telephoning a fair way to pick zone champions. With all the grands that we have in the ATA today the ATA itself is to blame.

    Not shooting in Ohio isn't the issue in my mind, it's what the ATA did to Jaqua's. Cam, George, and Nick were worried that the Ohio and Mich shooters would be hurt and not understand why they cancelled the shoot. Big Don is right, I'm glad he's seen the light. Maybe there's still hope for Barry, you think.

    Brad Dysinger
     
  14. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    As I see it last year it was inexcusable that the ATA added Illinois to our Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan rotation and it was even more disgusting that Illinois was put ahead of Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan in the rotation. This year Jaqua's was scheduled to have our section of the Central Zone and in the extreme wisdon of the powers to be they slapped Ohio and Jaqua's in the face again by having a shoot in this section at Illinois. Jaqua's found this out from a traget vendor that they were sharing this year.

    What I feel bad about is that over the years Jaqua's has been such a solid ATA supporter both as a gun business, and as a gun club and now they have been thrown under the bus without even the courtesy of an explanation as to why.

    When will the ATA realize that they need the shooters more than the shooters need the ATA. Alot of the shooters from my area are not as dedicated to the sport of registered shooting as a few of us are and those shooters are finding it easier to spend their recreational dollars elsewhere.

    Over the years the Central Zone has been one of my best shoots. I have won the Central Zone sengles twice, the handicap once, and I have tied for the high all around twice, besides several class wins and runner ups. Plus a 725, a 400 and a 350 target shoot off and many shorter ones, winning some and losing some.

    I will not attend the Central Zone Shoot this year, and I support Jaqua's dicision.

    Dave Berlet
     
  15. Terry L A

    Terry L A TS Member

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    Mr. Dave Berlet your comment "when will the ATA realize that they need the shooters more than the shooters need the ATA" speaks volumes-this was very well said. I feel the same but have never be able to put it to words. I appreciate your post and your honesty. Terry
     
  16. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Ohio should be in the Eastern Zone and add Missouri and Kansas to the Central Zone and try to grow the participation near Sparta. Ohio and Michigan are more kin to the North Eastern trapshooting community anyway. I'm sure I'm not thinking of all the ramifications of this idea but Ohio is the tail that is trying to wag the dog here. Why don't they just become a different part of the dog and make all the eastern shooters happy?

    I have the deepest regard for the Jaqua and the Ranzau families. They are icons in the trapshooting community and deserve all our respect. They certainly have mine.

    Brad's idea of a single site for the ATA Central Zone Shoot is surely the purest way to determine the zone champions. Unfortunately, It's not practical in this economy. Hell, I'm retired and have always travelled big distances to big shoots. But the great majority of shooters aren't that lucky or able to do like me. There was once an effort to keep me and others off the Illinois State Team because I shot over half of my targets out of state and at state shoots and zone shoots.

    Everybody knows that Ohio is the core of the trapshooting world but they should be willing to share the rest of that world with the chance to expand. The more shooters the better, for the good of the order, don't you think?

    When competing entities are beating the hell out of each other maybe it's time for a split.
     
  17. DuckDog

    DuckDog Active Member

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    Barry,

    Brad pointed out on a previous thread that Ohio, Michigan and Indiana tried to form a Great Lakes Zone years ago but the ATA declined. Maybe we should revisit that idea.

    I like your idea of a split. Since the ATA does not think that holding a shoot in southern Illinois and northwest Ohio at the same time will impact the numbers at either location, how about we try a telephonic Grand American. We can use Sparta in southern Illnois and Cardinal Center in Ohio. Shouldn't have any impact on each other since they are so far apart. Lets give it a try and see!

    Don Cogan
     
  18. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the Great Lakes Zone. Disagree with the Grand split. The Grand should never be split.
     
  19. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    And now we can see clearly the problem . The State of Illnois is added one year and then the next year would like to drop Ohio for Missouri ??

    Can you say BS
     
  20. zimmie

    zimmie Active Member

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    DON,
    I AGREE WITH THE SPLIT, OHIO,INDIANA,MICHIGAN,GO TO THE CARDINAL CENTER AND ENJOY THE GREAT PLACE MR FISHBOURN HAS BUILT.
    ZIMMIE
     
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