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Here we go again

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by jimrich60, Apr 11, 2009.

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  1. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    In 1979, under Jimmy Carter, the Iranians seized the U.S. Embassy and its personnel and held them hostage for nearly a year. Carter negotiated almost endlessly with these Iranian "pirates" undermining U.S. interests throughout the world (except for the aborted "rescue mission, and no, this was not the miitary's screw-up, but Carters personally-I was there but will not, cannot discuss it further). Now pirates are seizing U.S. shipping and taking hostages off Somalia, so what does the Nobama do? Why send in the negotiators of course. To talk to the "moderate" pirate faction I guess. Meanwhile those "weak, useless" French have a yacht seized off Somalia by another group of pirates and what does this weak kneed country do. Just send in its special action forces and kill the pirates, taking the ship back. Unfortunately one hostage died, but at least they reacted as they should have, and without delay. What does that tell you about the Nobama?
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    These hostages do have one thing going for them, in that they aren't employed by the U.S. Government! Their employer has what the hijackers want, and is going to give it to them willingly.

    They were on a private vessel, sailing in International waters. Obama's Navy is there to show "concern," nothing more.

    This ransom demand WILL be paid. You might as well start preparing yourself for the news reports of the elaborate measures the shipping company are about to take...withdrawing the money from a bank, getting it sealed inside some kind of floating container, and drop it from an airplane where the 'jackers can get it, etc. It's not going to be a pleasing story for any ex-military commando types here on this thread...but it's what's going to happen. There will never be a bullet fired.
     
  3. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Kill 'em all...Negotiations are over!!

    Curt
     
  4. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    Just heard on the radio that another ship under US flag was commandeered.
     
  5. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Damn straight! And why not? You've seen what the policy of the shipping companies and U.S. Military are...why wouldn't they do it? It's a sure bet!


    Hell, they might as well start taping the money to the outside of the ships...or set up a toll-station or something. All those bazillion dollars spent building the Suez Canal...for THIS?


    I'm so glad the Clinton administration solved that Somalia problem.
     
  6. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    "Damn straight! And why not? You've seen what the policy of the shipping companies and U.S. Military are...why wouldn't they do it? It's a sure bet! "

    buzz-gun: Please remember that the military's "policy" has nothing to do with this. The only policy they have is what is allowed/directed by the President. I have no doubt whatsoever that both Special Forces and Delta Force are available and ready (and likely chomping at the bit) to take action, but they can do nothing unless the Commander-in-Chief so orders.
     
  7. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    The stand off in Iran was the U.S. fault.. They contacted Israel.. and was told NOT to use our choppers as they were not equiped for the desert dust.. Israel offered the use of their choppers and was turned down.. The flaw in the mission was the choppers failed.. NOT the soldiers.. Then the U.S. did the unthinkable.... they left their dead behind... Donnie Hadoni.. who was in charge of helping the U.S. was perpaired to help the U.S. tunnel to where they were being kept.. from a "safe house".. some 600 yards away.. and was again refused.. Hell.. if the Mexicans can tunnel under our border..600 yards is not the biggest feat in the world.. Anyway.. I see Navy seals blasting a hole in the hull.. and then just waiting.. Ever see any black swimmers???? Their denser bone structure kind of prevents any long range swimming for all but the MOST determined... All Good.. Mike
     
  8. Old Smoker

    Old Smoker Member

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    Don't be ah worring, folks! Obammy said he'll talk to them heavens. I'll sure that will solve all our problems. If nuffin else, he'll go over ther, bow down, and gib them all a new Ipod lack the one he gave da Queen. If dat don't work, he'll apologize fo our boat being over der in dez waters in duh first place!
     
  9. pa pete

    pa pete Member

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    How do the words go? "... To the shores of Tripoli We will ..."
    "Pete" McDonough
     
  10. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    PerazziBigBore:

    Actually, you don't quite have the story right. For Iran, we trained with U.S.Army helicopters equiped with sand filters and otherwise prepped for desert operations. However, when it came time to actually carry out the mission, we were directed to use Navy helicopters and pilots, neither of which were equipped or trained for desert operations. Carter was, of course, a Navy officer once and wanted Navy involved in the flight ops. The Israelis had nothing to do with it. There were other factors involved also including being forced to wait until the sand storm season started.
     
  11. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    I'm well aware that Israel had nothing to do with it.. But they offered to share their training.. Donnie was a friend of the family .. I believe my information to be correct.. While every detail was not shared with me..what part of what I posted do you feel was not 100% correct.. The choppers we used were not equipped for sand.. we left our dead.. and never dug a tunnel to free the Americans..

    General Dayan was even a closer friend of the family.. My mother was at a party with him during the raid on Entebe.. Much more interesting story..

    All Good.. Mike
     
  12. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    jimrich, correction noted...when I say "US Military," I mean to say "Obama," since that's who commands it now.

    I have no doubt that the corporations involved are pleading with the USN to do "nothing," because they are afraid of having their precious vessels and cargo sunk. I believe the Navy is there to keep additional pirate vessels away, lest they congregate and create an international "crisis" that would make Obama look bad.

    This is easy to solve..."if" you can get these companies to think about anything other than the almighty dollar. But since they're probably publicly-owned with stockholders to answer to, that will probably be impossible. So I take it back - this is impossible to solve (given the current mindset of the shipping companies). Somebody is going to have to get mad as hell and decide they're not going to take it anymore...and that isn't going to happen.

    It's "just business"...and so that's why I think the US Military just needs to get out of the way, and let the companies handle "business" on their own - and see how that works out for them.
     
  13. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    PerazziBigBore:

    No criticism intended, but we were not told (by the Israelis or any else) that we should not use our own helicopters because they were not equiped for desert dust. Our helicopters (those that we trained/practiced with) were indeed so equiped and ready. The problem is that we did not use these helicopters in the actual mission, but Navy helicopters. The Navys choppers were equiped/prepped for sea operations, salt water, etc, but had no sand filters or other desert equipment. Nor were tunnels part of the plan. Still might have worked if we had been allowed to go when we were ready, but were held back until well into the sand storm season. Appreciate your "sources" but as someone who was part of it, I have no doubt we could have carried out the operation if we had been allowed to do so as we planned it.

    Buzz-Gun:

    I don't really think the "companies" have much to do with the standoff at this point. The Navy is not taking action simply because the current administration believes in "negotiation and kumbaya" rather than action. Remember, we no longer have terrorism, but simply "man-made disasters" which can, some think, simply be negotiated away if we "understand and empathize" with them properly.
     
  14. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    jim, did you hear the Navy spokesperson on the radio the other day, talking about how this isn't terrorism, but rather a "criminal act?"

    It sounded like a distinction without a difference, to me...but he sure sounded awful "specific" about the terminology used, even correcting the reporter about it at one point.

    Geez, people, get a clue. Six more ships are going to get captured while our government officials quibble over the definition of what to call it.
     
  15. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    Buzz-Gun:

    Did not hear that interview, but does not surprise me. We are now in a period where terrorism is not terrorism, nor piracy called piracy. Lets hear it for kumbaya. But, just read a Reuters report that we finally did take action. 3 pirates dead, 1 in custody, and the Captain freed unharmed. No other details, but if true, great news finally. Now if only we had the guts to take out their home ports and nests.

    Jim R
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    They're not pirates. They're "Undocumented Sailors".
     
  17. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    Deals over now guys. The Commander in Chief gave the word and the navy carried out a precision strike. Mission Accomplished for real this time.Huh guys? Dan
     
  18. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Jim.. I was told not only was it a dust issue with the intakes.. but something to do with the turbines were made differently.. The air force at that time in Israel used basically all American parts..and the coment was based on what they did to retro fit the American chopper once they arrived over there.. I'm sure that we could have easily retro fitted what they used.. The sake of the words were that America did not listen to the warnings..and loss of life resulted.. I'm happy to see the Capt. rescued today.. We're all on the same team.. At least here anyway.. All Good.. Happy Easter.. Mike
     
  19. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    Mike:

    There were several adaptations that had to be made to the choppers for desert operations. They worked perfectly in training. Unfortunately, as you note, our leaders at the time, did not listen to the operators and made political decisions which cost us dearly. Hope you and your family have had a good Easter as well

    Jim R
     
  20. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Justice prevails! Love it, love it, love it...
     
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