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Help with Handicap and Unsingle....

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Frye, Jan 1, 2009.

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  1. Frye

    Frye TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
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    158
    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

    I'm hoping some of you have already been thru this and know how to correct it.
    I'm shooting and XT unsingle, non adjustable comb. Love it!! But I'm inconsistent with it in handicap. It was suggested that I could be Canting the gun. I can't tell.. I line up the same each time and the mount feels good. I'm seeing a good target picture, squeeze off the shot and the target keeps on going, untouched. I know where the gun shoots, I've verified POI and have the same loads.... I'm stumped and this is really hurting my scores. I'm effected at all stations on all the targets... I just don't know. Sometimes I smash the heck out of and on the next target.. LOSS!!
    I do not have this inconsistency with my XT over/under.... just the unsingle so I'm thinking there might be something I'm overlooking, Just don't know what!!

    Thanks in Advance..

    Frye
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,632
    Try raising the comb, use some strips of mole skin. If you are going to aim it like a rifle and squeeze the trigger you will need a higher POI. HMB
     
  3. cls

    cls Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    209
    Does your gun have any adjustable butt plate? Most right handed shooters need the toe of the butt kicked out some. A little for some, a lot for others.

    Try mounting the gun with your eyes closed. You should be able to mount your gun by feel without using your eyes. After mounting your gun with your eyes closed open them. If your gun is lined up perfectly vertical, perpendicular with the ground, I'll be surprised. That is assuming you don't already have the toe of the recoil pad kicked out some. Most shooters find that when they open their eyes they have to adjust the mount slightly to make the gun perfectly vertical (one bead on top of the other). Don't misunderstand, I don't mean a perfect figure 8 with the beads, that's purely a matter of preference. But the beads should indeed be in a perfect vertical line. Whether there's space between them or if one is behind the other doesn't matter (it matters when considering POI height, and perhaps whether your vision is impaired or not by the rib/barrel, but it doesn’t matter for this set up).

    If when you open your eyes the beads are lined up north and south, great. That means with no movement after opening your eyes, it has to be perfect. If when you open your eyes you have to move the gun, even slightly (any amount actually), you should adjust the butt plate to fix it. Keep in mind that every time you move the butt plate you'll likely have to also move the comb slightly as it will be affected. Even though it's only slight, perfection is the goal here. Again I can't emphasize enough that when you open your eyes, after mounting your gun by feel, the mount should be PERFECT. You should never have to adjust the mount (PERIOD). When it is perfect, and you are confident that it is, you never have to look at the beads, you simply mount and call. If the mount is off, you'll know by feel, not by vision. This comes with tens of thousands of rounds of course.

    Many shooters look at the beads once they’ve mounted the gun and then adjust the mount slightly to make for their preferred sight picture (bead pattern). The problem with this is that it is easily lost when you swing for a target. That perfect mount has to be routine and like a machine, not something that is close then compensated for with an adjustment.

    Further, just because the mount is perfect when you mount it and then open your eyes looking out over the barrel, doesn't mean it will remain perfect when you swing for a wide angle target (another reason an adjustable butt plate is required). Many shooters (without an adjustable butt plate) will do this eyes closed gun mount test and be happy with the results. What they often fail to realize is that when they swing the gun, their shoulder pocket shape causes the gun to cant when they swing. So after getting things perfect as I described above try the eyes closed gun mount again, but before opening your eyes swing hard one way and then open your eyes. Is your gun still perfectly vertical? Then try it the other way. In reality if your shooting form is correct it should be perfect. You should be moving your entire torso as one unit, mostly from the waist (although I assume there are some “arm shooters” out there who are successful).

    I hope this helps,

    cls
     
  4. gary0920

    gary0920 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    balance a line level on the rib, mount the gun, and see if the bubble is off.
     
  5. AAtrap

    AAtrap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    1,590
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Frye, do you shoot singles with the unsingle? Might also help to know your Hdc. yardage.

    Steve
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    9,556
    Frye- Yes, you are overlooking something. A cant could cost you something like 1 bird in 500. Not keeping in the gun and not seeing the target well can cost you 20 birds per 100. Concentrate on the big things first and then worry about canting after you get the major problems solved.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Nobody says you can't use the O/U for singles and handicap,,,,that's all some have and do quite well....
     
  8. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Lot's of good advice here but I would find a reputable gun fitter - meet him/her at the gun club and have them analyze your mount, your misses but most important your hits.

    You need to get to the point where you are no longer looking at the gun but can mount it and hit the target without even looking at the front bead.

    Where do you live? There are a few good fitters all over the country.
     
  9. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    1,462
    I was told I was canting my unsingle gun also, didn't believe it but went home and set up my digital camera on self-timer. This gave me time to mount the gun and aim directly at camera. Pic's didn't lie, I had a cant. I adjusted my butt plate till it was cured. Every now and then I set up the camera to double check.
     
  10. WWB

    WWB Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    300
    I have the very same problem and the very same gun. Got worse when I lost 50lbs! I never have got that thing hitting consistently--the pattern board says its a lite 70/30 and I can smoke 3 to 5 in a row --then loss!
    I am on the 27.
    I am 69 now and wonder if that's a factor!!??
    A local gunsmith feels that some are bothered by the bbl being below the line of sight so far and whether it is conscious or unconscious the left eye picks up all of the high rib etc either causing you to shoot under the target or thinking your to low and going to high..?? I dunno--just know I tryed out an
    old TM1 and ran 25 of them--some chips and chunks but nevertheless--hits.
    I am currently in the process of looking for a clean TM1 or TMX special.


    Bill
     
  11. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Tuxedo NC
    Frye,

    In my humble (or not so humble) opinion having a trap gun, particularly one you shoot at handicap, without an adjustable comb is just like going to a gunfight with a knife. Dialing in fit and POI is critical, especially with handicap where even slight errors cause misses.

    Brownings shoot pretty flat as a rule, so unless you have a serous cant, more than 5 degrees, deal with it later. (I agree with the above poster...) Concentrate on fit and POI.

    An adjustable butt pad is not a bad idea either. It will allow you to get rid of cant and help get your mount consistent. Laast time I checked there was no extra points for what kind of gun you had or what it looks like....only broken targets count!

    If you need suggestions on folks who do this work or have any questions about what I said above give me a call during the week at my office.

    Bob Schultz
    Target Shotguns, Inc.
    800-684-6329
     
  12. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    Bill I shoot a top single Mx8 but I wanted a dedicated handicap gun so I bought a TMX set it up with a rad2 and had he comb made adjustable. I set both guns to shoot the same POI but the tall rib on the TMX causes my left eye to take over. If I were you I would stick with the TM1 or at least try a TMX before you buy one. Tall ribs are not for everyone.
     
  13. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Have a good gun fitter check the pitch and make sure the gun it hitting where you are looking with the unsigle barrel on it ... I had to hold a little lower gun when I was shooting an unsingle, that might help you also ... It don't cost anything to try holding lower for a round and see what happens ... I tried a high gun with the unsingle and shot over everything ... I hold very high with a top single and was probably jumping at the targets with the unsingle ... Get someone to do an adjustable comb for you, its money well spent ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  14. WWB

    WWB Member

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    otnot;
    I suspect you are probably correct. Altho the TMX rib is only moderately high,
    it is still higher than a TM1 for sure. I think also I am letting asethetics
    play a part in that I always thought the TMX was a good lookin' trap gun.
    I have found one of each. The TM1 is here tho and I'd have to send off for the
    TMX. Thank you for your thoughts. Hope for an early spring and good shooting.
    Bill
     
  15. Frye

    Frye TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
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    AATrap, I have not shot many singles with this set up. I use my other XT for singles and doubles. I got this XT unsingle for handicap. I don't have an established ATA yardage, I've only been shooting trap for 13 months. I have joined this year but doubt I will shoot any registered targets yet. One of my league squads shoots from 30 yards, 2nd league I shoot with tyipcally shoots from the 22 to the 25 yard line. Almost all of my practice is from the 27 yard line or from the parking lot for games. I am very comfortable shooting the XT and my scores are consistent, however I have to cover up a long yardage target to break it. I have the unsingle set to just come up to the target, touch the bottom and it vanishes. This is where I'm losing targets, I can see the same target 2 or 3 times, and I'll miss one of the 3 with the same sight picture. I seldom chip them, it's either powdered, or missed. I've done the eyes closed mount about 20 times or so, I don't see a cant in the mount. The gun isn't level, it points downward and slighly to my left side, not alot.I don't think I have a canting problem. I think I have a shooter problem!
     
  16. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,262
    Had the very same problem with my 85TSS Un-single. Found an eye dominance / sight picture issue to be the culprit. Once I CLOSED my left eye, my consistency (and no more flinching) returned. Strange in that it only affected the un-single and not the O/U barrel. Same sight picture for both, EXCEPT for when the left eye wants to see something!

    AndyH
     
  17. kie95

    kie95 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
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    Try and change your shoot procedure like Pat Ireland stated, you could following a chip off the target you just broke almost to the ground. It sounds like your coming out of the gun or picking up your head when you are making your shot. Thinking about following a chip will keep you in your gun thru the shot and make you watch your target break off the end of the barrel. Not as pretty to watch when they turn inside out but better over all results.

    Sean
     
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