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Help With Fixing Reminton 4100 Trap

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Jollytrapshooter, Jul 16, 2008.

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  1. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    Me and another guy were put in charge of getting a Remington 4100 trap up and running for an Ikes Shoot. We got it all cleaned up and running, but there's a couple of problems. First, the trap will stay in one position and throw 5 or 6 birds, then finally move, but will stay in the same position and do the same thing. The second we think we have figured out, but want to make sure. When it drops targets onto the plate, they like to bounce and end up on edge, then when the arm goes to throw them, they shatter all over causing the next 3 or 4 birds to come out broken. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Josh.
     
  2. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    First, make sure there isn't a ridge of pitch build up on the drop plate. This can stop the target from sliding rearward. Also, there should be a tab on the front side of the hole where the target drops out. This helps guide the target down. It's just a flat piece of steel. You can bend it for adjustment.

    With regards to the targets being tossed, are you saying the machine doesn't change position after each target is thrown?

    Doug
     
  3. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    Yes, the machine will move to a spot, stop, throw a target but doesn't move. It just stays in that spot until the 5th or 6th target, then it will finally move, but does the same thing again. Thanks, Josh.
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    There is a one rpm clock motor with a scalloped cam disk on the left rear side of the machine. the cam operates a micro switch.

    This controls the angle clutch mechanism.

    The clock motor should rotate continuously, turning the cam. The cutouts on the cam are varied, to give interruption of sorts.

    The micro switch operates the angle clutch solenoid which actuates the clutch to move the nose.

    potential defects are: sticky clutch mechanism, intermittent solenoid, micro switch mounted poorly, worn spring in angle clutch.

    These are "Wrap Spring" clutches, used industrially to advance conveyors a certain distance, etc.

    I believe in industry they were called "incremental rotation" clutches.

    I may have some info if Remmy can't get manuals for you.

    Also, Doug is correct with the tab (spring steel) and the drop plate. the tab tilts the target as it falls to make it land parallel to the plate. Plate should have good sponge in the middle for shock absorption.

    HM
     
  5. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    OH YES, make sure the foam/sponge is in good condition, if not, the drop plate can tilt, causing the target to roll.

    One other thing with regards to the clutches, especially when they get older, they don't want to work very well. There is a little hole in the side of the clutch, try and pump if full of tranny fluid. It helps with keeping them going for a little while more. Eventually is will leak out and cause the clutch to slip. Don't attempt to disassemble the clutch, I've done it, it it was a waste of time, because I couldn't get parts for it.

    Replacing a clutch is damn expensive. Trying to order a clutch directly from the clutch manufacturer (to save from the middleman) will not work. The clutch is a perprietory part (Remington's). BUT...the manufacturer WILL rebuild your original. It's been a little time since I've worked on a 4100, but when I did send in the clutch(s), it was around $100 for the rebuild, vs. the hundreds of dollars for the cost of a new one.

    Getting a manual for the 4100 would be a wise investment. There are some timing issues that the manual can help you with...especially is the machine likes to chatter (mostly from extreme temp changes (winter to summer)
     
  6. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    We have a manual to it. We will pull it apart and see if any of these could possibly be what is wrong with it. We thought the sponge on the drop plate was one of the problems, and have a replacment ready to go on it, hopefully that will fix it. Otherwise, thanks for all of the help, Josh.
     
  7. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    Ok, we went out and worked on the trap today. We replaced the foam pad under the hole where the birds drop, we shot 100 birds through it, and it didn't break a single one, so we're pretty sure we got that fixed. Now, we pulled the little damper off of it, and found it was doing absolutely nothing, so we were going to see if we could pull it apart and replace seals and fill it again to see if we could fix it. We got the 2 plugs out, but can't find out if the two end caps are threaded on or pressed on. I've looked up the cost of a new one and found they are $130 new, and we need two for both of the 4100's that we have. Anyone on here replaced the seals in these dampers and know what it takes? Thanks, Josh.
     
  8. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    Yea, we thought about doing that, but didn't think there would be much point in it if it wasn't going to do anything. We removed it and used the trap, the trap moves/shakes just as much with it as it does without. We figured it would be better off if we could replace seals and get it to actually do something. The rubbers all spin freely, and I've ordered a new set for each trap. You anywhere done with your job down in Des Moines or where ever your working? I kind of miss beating you, LOL. Thanks, Josh.
     
  9. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Hint:

    Empty the magazine after shooting, that way the rollers won't get flat spots.

    Hint #2:

    If the machine chatters when idling, replacing the mainshaft NOW may prevent you having to buy the sprag clutches later on for a couple hundred bucks.
    The shaft has a tendency to crystallize where the pawls in the clutch dig into it, eventually causing wear spots which create the chattering.

    Grease the fitting in the top sprag housing regularly, pointed grease gun fitting necessary. The damn things just cost to much so get all the life you can out of them.

    I recall mainshaft replacement was usually at 300 thousand targets or so, longer would make trouble.

    HM
     
  11. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    For all our 4100 parts needs/service issues we used QRP...

    Quality Replacement Parts
    5404 Valley Belt Rd
    Independence OH 44131
    (216) 674-0200 (last area code/number I have)
    Alan - contact

    Hope this may help,

    Jay
     
  12. kolar12

    kolar12 Member

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    We had a problem with the one at our club not changing position after the target is thrown, which is how the trap works. Mice tend to build nests in the bottom of the trap. The mess that they create works on the rod of the selenoid located in the bottom of the trap. If this selenoid does not work, the angle will not change. Don't bother repairing it. The crud will put a small ridge on the armature and it will only fix it for a small period of time. Replace it. And then put moth balls in the trap to keep the mice out.

    I think the clutch is now $465 from QRP.
     
  13. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    We've already ordered new rubber rollers from QRP, and intend on installing them tomorrow. I also understand that set to normal position, these machines throw 3-hole targets. I don't know much about 2-hole vs. 3-hole, but is this true? If so, which hole do you put the pin in to get it to throw relatively close to 2-hole targets? We tried hole #9 which is supposed to be 37* I believe, but that seemed too close. Thanks, Josh.
     
  14. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    Ok, now we're kind of getting frustrated with this trap. We got it to the point where we were positive it was fixed. We shot a round of trap off of it tonight, and it did run flawlessly, then we went to shoot the second round off of it, and the problems started immediately. You would call for the bird, the puller would push the button, you would hear the trap cycle, but no target. Then, after you heard it cycle the first time, without pushing the button again, it would then cycle again, but would throw a target that time, and the arm would stop. Could this possibly be a symptom of the cam and microswitch for the throwing arm being out of sync? We have a manual, but I haven't had a chance to go through it. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Josh.
     
  15. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you read the manual.

    The turret operates via a small clutch like the larger ones which cock the trap and change angles.

    It receives a pulse via the cord going up from the lower housing. this actuates the clutch and the magazine advances one space.

    I can't remember where the pulse comes from but it happens during the cocking cycle.

    RTFM

    HM
     
  16. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    If you drill a hole (about an inch dia. & plug it with a plastic plug) in the aluminum turret frame behind the turret clutch, you can give it a shot of lube (use tranny fluid) without dismanttleing the whole top of the turret. Saves a bit of agrivation, when the clutches get dry they usually stick and won't advance the turret as needed. The micro switch that controls the angle changing clutch is exposed to too much debris, Make a little hood to cover it and save a little more problem. The 4100 is a workhorse when it runs but they need a bit of TLC. I think the manual has a wiring schematic that will help a bit.

    Big Jack
     
  17. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Call the folks at QRP, ask for some assistance (you bought product, you're a customer)...

    Jay
     
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