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Help with doubles trap

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by mt, Mar 16, 2007.

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  1. mt

    mt Member

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    we just started shooting doubles at our club and i could use a bit of help...ok maybe more than a bit. I'm doing ok with the first target but the second is pretty iffy.

    my gun is an o/u that shoots 70/30

    for the first shot: I set the gun up for where i can hit it asap.
    for the second shot: do you try to hit the bottom far corner of the target?

    thanks in advance
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If the second bird is on the way down when you shoot it, having a flat (50/50) shooting gun would be a help. With a 70/30 setup you will have to shoot about 2 ft under the bird. The faster you get to the second bird determines how far under the bird you will have to shoot. Due to gun speed while moving to the second target your horizontal lead will appear as though you are shooting right at the target. HMB
     
  3. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    Doubles is a timing and experience game. It is critical to have your body lined up for the second shot on each station as it is the hardest shot to make. The first shot is a snap shot. You can mark where the first bird will be by a tree or other landmark, so it's a piece of cake. The faster you shoot the first target, the more time you have for the second, but don't delay, you want to shoot it while it's still rising. Also, the first target is rising dramatically, so you may have cover it up to break it (depending how high your gun shoots). Doubles can be easy once you get experience and know what your "crutches" are. Each station takes a different set up and approach. Gun set up for Doubles can be more difficult than any other program. You may need a gun that shoots high on the first shot and 50/50 on the second shot. Everyone's timing and capability is different. As said earlier, practice, practice, practice.
     
  4. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    think aobut the game as a two target presentation and what you do on the first shot will directly affect what happens on the second target.

    A right hander, starting on post 1 and shooting the straight target first needs to know where the straight bird will appear. No matter whether you trap the first bird or start the gun low and catch up to it, from post one the straight target will appear to the left of the center of the traphouse. Post 2, it will be to the right of the center of the house. On post 4, it is to the left of center and on 5 the right. On post three, if you trap the first target, pick a spot to the right of right corner of the trap. If starting the gun low, start it at about right corner of the house.

    Hit the first target quickly and then roll you eyes the other direction to pick up the second target. This takes some practice and effort. (The gun will follow your eyes). Pick up the second bird and just shoot right at it (don't stop the gun and try to aim, just catch up to the bird and hit the trigger). It is quite helpful to know where your gun shoots at the distance you are catching up to the second target.

    Doubles is about light loads on the first target so the gun remains under control as you move to the second target. Doubles is also about having your feet set so you do not have trouble turning on the second bird. Doubles is about lots of practice. Many good tapes, books, etc out there if you cannot get to an instructor.
     
  5. doctordennis

    doctordennis TS Member

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    Easiest shooting game there is next to skeet! The targets are always in the same place! Or atleast they are suppose to be. They only thing complex about doubles is gaining the confidence to "puff" that first bird and only worry about the second. Don't buy into all this 50,000 target nonsense before you can be decent. It is best to shoot first bird with a static gun or "spot shoot" this is where the confidence comes in! Best way to learn is to get a singles trap set on the same angle as the doubles bird, don't forget to slow it down also, and then develope your first shot by starting with a high gun in an intercept position to be able to shoot without moving the gun. Relax and anticipate the bird and continue to move your gun hold down lower and lower as you build confidence in smoking the bird, until you are breaking it extremely quick. Once you've got the first bird figured out and are able to break "smoke" 15 in a row then it will be time to move to the second bird. To learn to shoot the second bird you will hold your gun in the intercept position like your going to shoot the first bird. Call for the bird make slight upward movement to simulate recoil and then make a "check mark" shaped "U" swing so that you are dropping down and coming up to the bird (second bird) and after you reach the bottom of the "U" you will be shooting the bird exactly like singles. When you get to where you are able to do both these 22 or mores time out of 25 then you can go to the doubles trap and put the two pieces together and start busting with knowledge and confidence because that is what doubles is all about. You're stance is important. I always shoot the straightaway first so I position myself so that I am at extreme comfort angle to the first bird and swing back acrossed my body to the second bird. For post 3 you will have to decide which bird you would like to shoot first normally it would be left bird for right handers and vice versa but it is really more preference. One word about post 3 make you gun hold so that you will not be tempted to track the first bird, don't be afraid to get your gun hold outside the trap house if necessary, any movement on the first bird shoud be up not out. I have found these techniques useful in teaching beginners as well as reteaching those that just don't seem to "get it". For those who want to argue my principles and say that you have to shoot 10,000 or 50,000 to be good I would have to ask them to define "good" as I am "AA" and have been atleast "A" since the first year I shot doubles learning with this technique. I have yet to shoot a total of 10,000 doubles in my 7 years of shooting. So if you want to learn step by step basics that will give you a tremendous foundation to build on then I know this will work for you! There may be other ways but this is easy and provides for "confidence" early on and we all know what that means breaking targets!
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Dr.Dennis,

    I think you have a couple of things backwards. Post 3 right handers usually shoot the right bird first, so they can swing the gun to the left for the second bird, thus keeping the gun firmly attached to ones head.

    Next, when shooting straight away bird first it is a good idea to take a foot position which lines you up for the second bird. This way after shooting the first bird you uncoil your body and you line up with the second bird without having to shoot across your body.

    I hope this will help you get your average up a little. HMB
     
  7. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

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    No better practice for trap doubles than to shoot a bunch of skeet doubles...makes you look at the targets and move the gun to them. Just change chokes for either game and go for it.
     
  8. missemucho

    missemucho Member

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    I was interested to read in Trap & Field that almost none of the "Big Dogs" spot shoot the first bird! Anybody else see this article? Also showed what chokes they shot and most were fairly tight for the first shot. Definately not what I would have guessed.
    John
     
  9. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    It is best to shoot the right bird on station 3 if your right handed. It will prevent fighting your body on the second bird. It should not take 50,000 birds to be a 90% shooter on doubles, but everyones eyes and reflexes vary. I was AA my first year, but came from a sporting background. I "ambush" the first bird, but still come up from beneath it, as no bird is exactly in the same place every time. My eyes transfere to the second bird as soon as I pull the trigger (or sooner) on the first target. I normally do not see the first target completely break. I want to shoot the second bird while it's still rising. If the first bird is rising and the second bird is dropping, you've got a big problem to overcome. You would need a high shooting first barrel and a flat shooting second barrel. Few guns can do this out of the box, but new K-80's and Perazzi's are adjustible and can. Both shots can be made w/ light 8's (1145). I shoot LM/IM, sometimes IC/Mod depending on the wind. Best bet is to get a coach.
     
  10. MGeslock

    MGeslock TS Member

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    Does anyone shoot them "backwards". Shoot the straight away last. The thinking is that you know where the last target will be.

    I have just started shooting doubles. I accidentally "got lost in the moment" and my sporting clays instinct took over....scores were still the same.....

    Thoughts out there
     
  11. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    MGeslock
    My opinion is that shooting them backwards is more difficult. I feel there is lots of extra gun movement involved in doing it that way. But I am not going to claim that I am right. Doubles demands practice no matter how you approach the game and the shots.

    missemucho,
    I think Mr Kiner took advantage of his ink to push what he believes is the "best" way to shoot them. When you are a world class shooter, you can do that. But note that he did not have Kay Ohye in there. Kay traps that first target and he is very very good at doubles. Lots and lots of very good doubles shooters trap the first bird. I'd say either way will work just fine if you put in the time and effort required (practice).
     
  12. doctordennis

    doctordennis TS Member

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    PerazziBigBore No, I was not a natural! But if you actually take the time like I've described, to learn to do each part of the puzzle well, it is easy to put it all together. It is one bird at a time and that is the best way to learn. No different than anything else. I guarantee you if you take the time to break it down and do it this way you will be more than competent at breaking 94's all the time long before you get to 10,000 or even close to 50,000.
    HMB I stand corrected about first bird on post 3 for right handers! Being left handed I often forget it is the Exception but I actually prefer to shoot the right bird first myself even being left handed. That has to do with the right bird not having as much spin or speed as the left. But you statement on the first bird foot position I will argue until the cows come home!!!

    tomk2 You take what ever bird first from post 3 that keeps your confidence because that will mean more than any body movement.

    As far as the "big Dogs" not spot shooting the first bird that would depend on how you define spot shooting? Whether they move their gun or not doesn't define spot shooting to me. Expecting to, and actually breaking the bird in the same spot, is how I define spot shooting. Whether you have gun movement or not is not defining it, whether you track to the bird would be the defining ingredient.

    I know my way is not the only way but I was attempting to help someone that is looking for direction and I know my way works especially for beginners and those that shoot doubles but don't really understand what they are doing.
     
  13. doctordennis

    doctordennis TS Member

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    By the way For your info I shoot IM bottom first then Full on top.
     
  14. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Most people find straightaway first works better. More natural movements, Up to the first target then OVER to the second target. Keep you'r head on the stock and pivot from the waist down. Oh, and-------Keep you'r head on the stock!

    John C. Saubak

    ps, keep you'r head on the stock
     
  15. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    It's technique. We have more time than we think to hit that second bird. I tend to over-swing and go by it, thinking I'm too late. Forget leading the second bird. You can't calculate that fast and judge how much lead you need in Trap. You would need 50 different lead points.
    I don't spot shoot the first bird and I don't lead the second one either. I'm consistantly mid to upper 40's. The one's I miss? Lack of concentration. I'm looking at the leading edge of both birds, thats it. I'm using M/IM. 1oz for the first bird 1 1/8 for the second. Shoot well, shoot many. Dave
     
  16. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Mike, interestingly, I had to do that the last time I shot doubles. Gun broke and had to borrow another. I'm lh, it was rh...anyway found I had to shoot the angle'd bird first so I only had to worry about elevation on the straightaway bird....

    hmmm....
     
  17. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    Despite whats right or wrong, I shoot the first bird as quick as I can with control. Look at the yardage of your first bird...you know where it will be...you should have a reference...25 yards?..30yards at most (22 yards is a skeet shot!). Hold your gun close to the height of the break point, then move right, left, or up and shoot the target. You also have a good idea of where the second bird will be and start you swing ASAP. Your momentum will create your lead. Muscle memory, practice, concentration, and confidence are stepping stone to success. Everyone's speed is different. You have to find what works best for you. I once shot w/ Howard Campbell @ the Ohio State shoot. I was fortunate enough to run em'. So did he. I broke my targets. His were inkspots. I'm a contractor. He's a gentleman and ....a pro!
     
  18. Claybusta

    Claybusta TS Member

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    I agree with Doctordennis, I find Doubles to be quite easy since you know in advance where the targets are going to be. My shooting style is as far from textbook as you could probably get. I'm a lefthanded shooter and I always shoot
    the Right target first on all stations. I find it easier to pick up sight of the second target that way. In my pre-shot routine I line my self up to where
    I know the second target is going to be and then I turn from my knees to the right and call for the targets. I do not fully shoulder the gun and my head is
    about 2 inches above the cheek-piece. When the targets are released I raise the gun to my head and shoulder at the same time, track up through the right target and blast it quick,I then let my body uncoil as I swing to the left for the second target.My right arm is fully extended and I grip the barrels,not
    the forestock. I do not, by any means, recommend that you or anybody shoot like
    I do. My point, is that everyone has there own style.

    One recommendation that I often give to new shooters, whether it be skeet,trap
    or doubles trap,is to try and maintain a light relaxed grip. If you take a
    stranglehold on the gun, this tenses up all your muscles in your hands all
    the way up into your shoulders and tends to give you an un-smooth jerky swing.
    In doubles trap, new shooters often miss the second target because they jerk
    the gun over quickly because they feel that they really have to rush the shot.
    As you get into doubles trap, with the help and advice from instructors & fellow shooters, eventually you will develop your own style,routine and rhythm. My style is totally unorthodox,but it works for me, so i'll stick with
    it.
     
  19. trapwife

    trapwife Well-Known Member

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    Leo Harrison will hold a doubles only clinic on Wednesday, May 23, just prior to the Great Lakes Grand in Mason MI. It will be a one day class, cost $220 plus shells and targets. Email to above address if interested. Oh, by the way, Leo only missed one doubles target the entire week of the Southern Grand, so he has a pretty good idea of how to break doubles....
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    mt- When you asked "do you try to hit the bottom far corner of the target?" it suggested to me that you are shooting the second target a bit too slow and you are aiming the shotgun like a rifle. If that is true, then you have two problems to solve.

    A good clinic from someone like Leo H. would be great. Not only did Leo miss just one doubles target out of 500 last week at the Southern Grand, he shot 100 of them into a 25-30 MPH head wind. Those targets were a little irregular.

    Pat Ireland
     
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