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Help with 366 loader.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Shooting Jack, Apr 22, 2011.

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  1. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    I set up my 366 auto loader tonight and am getting frustrated. I am loading AA hulls and all of them with the AA symbol up, load to look like a brand new shell. All the ones with the AA sysmbol to the side, are crushing about a quarter to half of an inch above the top of the brass. I set the wad pressure up to 50 lbs and couldn't set it any higher due to wad ram hitting side of the wad and collaping the wad. I am using WAA20 wads and shot weight is averaging 382 grains with 15 grains of unique powder. I have several other powders but that is what I had been using loading on my Mec 8567. Please, any suggestions. Thanks for your help. Jackie B.
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    At what stage are they crushing? You also don't need near that much wad pressure. You don't actually need any. You could seat the wad with your finger. I believe you have your crimp dies set too low.
     
  3. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    They are crushing in the crimping station. The top of the hull is open where you could stick a pencil in the precrimp station but as I said the AA hulls with the sysmbol up load and look like a brand new load. After the shot drops it looks as though the hulls is filled with shot almost to the top of the hull. Manual says you can adjust wad pressure up to 100 lbs but don't see that it's possible anyway with the new AA hulls. Help.. Jackie B.
     
  4. mx2005

    mx2005 TS Member

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    I was going to say you don't even need any wad pressure use you finger is fine . I have the same problem with AA hulls on the 366 I use STS or Nitro and not a problem.I think it has something to do with the taper in the shell it is tighter but not sure, I would call Hornaday and talk to Todd he helped me before. Pat.k.
     
  5. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    The wad pressure was used with the old style wads an is basically useless with modern hulls and wads. No matter how much pressure you apply the wad will spring back. I'm confused as to what you mean by the different AA hulls. I do not load 20ga so i don't get that part. I would possibly say its a problem with the wad/hull combo on certain hulls if your shot sticks up that high. I load on a 366 and i'm really trying but i believe i'm over my head here. I hate the dang AA's and load mostly STS/Nitro for some of the very reasons you name. The new AA's are a pain in the rear. Now i have some old AA's that are a dream to load onmy old Pacific.
     
  6. TC

    TC TS Member

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    Jakie, It appears you are loading 20 gauge hulls, correct? I think you might be mixing old compression formed and the new high strength hulls. Not a good idea to mix them, set up for the HS first.

    If you can get a pencil into the hull after the pre-crimp station, that is too wide for the HS hulls. As grntitan said, you don't need 50 lbs. of wad pressure. You also need to back off on your crimp die. The CF hulls can take take a heavy crimp but the HS hulls will buckle. Also if the HS hull has been loaded before and has a slight buckle, it will only get worse on the next loading. Tony

    ed: took me too long to type this out, if the shot is well above the top of the wad you have a wad or volume problem.
     
  7. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    I am loading once fired 20 ga AA HS hulls that are collapsing. I have weighed the shot and powder and they are exactly what is recommended for that hull. I will back of the crimp die as soon as I can figure out how to do it. That info is not in the manual. Thanks Jackie B.
     
  8. todd farris

    todd farris TS Member

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    First, if you are using versalite wads, good luck as I could never make them work. I switched to windjammer and claybuster.

    As for the loader, separate your hulls as you are trying to mix HS hulls with the old CF hulls.

    Next, use the HS hulls to set the loader. Back the wad pressure to 10lbs or less. Then, set the precrimp to the point at which the hull is almost closed. Much more closure than the old hulls require. Next, loosen the large nut on the crimper and back it off 4 or 5 turns. Loosen the jam nut on top of the crimper and screw the set screw in 2 or 3 turns and crimp a couple of shells. Work with these two adjustments on the crimp station until you get the desired effect. Finally, back off your final station(taper) until you get your crimp right then reset the taper station.


    todd
     
  9. omgb

    omgb Well-Known Member

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    The key to success is in the initial set up. First, you will need a factory shell in AA configuration. Now, go as follows:

    Stations:
    1. Set size and deprime to bottom just as the size ring reaches the rim.
    2. Set the primer drop to just open the fingers enough to drop a primer and no more.
    3. Set priming station to seat primer. Just seated is enough. If you have the new spring loaded seater your set. If you have the old style, you will have to fiddle with it.
    4. Set powder drop.
    5. Set wad fingers to 1/16-1/8 inch above the top of the hull mouth.
    6. Set shot drop
    7. Now set pre-crimp so that when a hull is run up, the mouth of the hull is showing a 1/8-1/4 inch dia. hole
    8. Now set the crimp die. Put your factory hull under the crimp die station. Back the die off until there is zero contact with the hull. Run the ram up and at the top of the stroke, adjust the die downward until it just touches the top of the factory hull.You will have to adjust the center punch of the die up or down to get the right depth of crimp.
    9. Now using the factory hull again, adjust the taper crimp to just slightly taper the hull.

    That's it. you should be all set now. If you change hull types, you will have to re-adjust.
     
  10. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Thanks Todd and OMGB. I'm headed over right now to set it up. Thanks again. Jackie B.
     
  11. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Winchester came out a guide line for loading the newer hulls. It does say to increase the wad pressure to push the wad past the base wad on the new cases.

    If you are using a tapered wad for the case it is easier. The Versalite is a wad that is advertised to be used in both because it has a bigger flair in the over powder cup so it can be used in both straight wall cases and tapered cases. It does not like the new Winchester case because it sets on top of the base wad and buckles the case. As will the other wads if they are not pushed past the base wad.

    Winchester has changed the design of the base wad to more tapered edge and it has helped but did not completely fix the problem.

    Ajax
     
  12. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    If you have an old, blued steel crimp die, you need to call Hornady and get a new one...the new style AA hulls don't load well in a final crimp die that has a taper..and the old dies have a .005 taper.

    Once I changed dies, worked like a champ.
     
  13. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    It is working great now. I followed the directions from Todd first and it is loading great now. It turned out that someone had modified the power bushing among other things.
     
  14. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Jack--I'm by no means trying to sound like an a$$ but you should have been aware immediately that the powder bushing was not dropping right if you had used a scale. That can be dangerous just assuming a bushing is dropping a certain weight. Every new batch of Green Dot i get usually requires a different bushing to drop the same grains i'm looking for. If you don't already, you should get a good accurate scale and at least spot check your loads. Its a very safe practice. Kinda your own quality control. Just say'n.........
     
  15. Chipmaker

    Chipmaker Active Member

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    Wow you replied: I have weighed the shot and powder and they are exactly what is recommended for that hull.

    Now someone had messed with the powder bushing causing your problem?

    Take GRNTITAN's advice and get a scale before you blow your gun up and hurt yourself and someone else.......................
     
  16. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    I don't have a scale, I have five of them and use them regularly. The loader was throwing 15.5 grains which is what it was supposed to be dropping but the powder insert that was in it was for 13 grains and had been reamed out. Since I have Mec loaders too I will just order the insert where I can use the mec bushings and not have to purchase a bunch of Hornady bushings. Jackie B.

    Oh and Chipmaker, I never said that the modified powder bushing was what caused the problem. I believe what caused the problem is a very sensitive hull that reqauires the loader to be set perfectly and that is not the case with the old AA and Remington hulls which were more tolerant to loads.
     
  17. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Jack---probably my fault for assuming that's what you meant. I still make it a point to point out the need for a scale just in case. There are alot of people that reload strickly by the bushing number and it's chart estimated drops. As you know that can be a dangerous practice. Sorry for causing a misunderstanding. I wasn't meaning it in a bad way. I just try and keep all safe.
     
  18. rollnblock

    rollnblock Member

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    99% of your problem is the wad. its catching the base of the hull. and not seating all the way down. you said so yourself when you said the shot was at the top of the hull. What wad are you using? only winchester wads have the taperred edge to go into the base.
     
  19. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    I am using WAA20 wad and also claybuster version of the WAA20 wad. I tried both with the same results initially. Once I adjusted it as Todd recommended it works slick. I believe now that the reason I was able to buy the loader so cheap was that the original owner had tried adjusting it for the new AA hulls and got it out of whack and got frustrated and sold it. It's working well enough now that I think I will keep it. LOL Jackie B.
     
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