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Help settle argument

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by pilotdan, Mar 19, 2010.

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  1. pilotdan

    pilotdan Member

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    help settle an argument- my buddy just bought a MachOne single barrel. It has reputedly one of the fastest lock times of all guns. He is moving over from a Model 12.

    My theory is that on angle targets he will shoot behind them, because he is used to starting to pull trigger as he swings through the target. If he does that, he will shoot behind them. (according to me). Same principle on straightaways. If he pulls trigger as he is getting there, he will shoot under them because the gun is going off sooner. OK. Opinions, please.
     
  2. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    If both are the same (model 12-Machone) as to POA your are correct . The MachOne fires the shell faster . Your lead will be less with a faster lock time .
     
  3. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Many moons ago, I used to bounce back and forth from a Rem. 3200 and a SX-1 Winchester and the difference in lock time was remarkable. But I found just 1/2 way through a warm up with the auto had me dialed in just fine. I think we are able to adjust instinctively faster than thinking about it too much.....Bob Dodd
     
  4. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    I doubt he would notice the difference at all. He will be shooting a different gun. I believe the fit and feel will be way more noticable than any difference in lock time.
     
  5. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Would not consistency of locktime be the most important? And, all things being equal, would not a faster locktime offer less real time error as it goes "off song" due to normal spring wear? I imagine the total package, weight of the gun, POI, shooter's reflexes on that day all enter into the equation. But have a varying locktime/trigger pull etc., shooter would be "toast"...inquiring minds again.
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I depends on the way he gets in front of the target;

    A. Swing through (come from behind) , it's as you say. Again, with all the warnings that it may be hard to prove or may not happen in "real life."

    B. Sustained lead, there's no difference between the two guns.

    C. Spot shooting - that is, shooting at least with the gun going slower (across the sky) than the target. Then the situation is reversed from the swing-through case, again with the warning that it since so much else is changing, none of this may reliably happen anyway.

    Neil
     
  7. pilotdan

    pilotdan Member

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    Thanks, guys- I'm only talking "theory" anyway. It was just a discussion that we had about what he may notice in the new gun. I remember Al Ljutic saying many years ago that it would take a shooter about 500 rounds to get used to a Ljutic because of the fast lock-time.
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Every thing depends on how long his shot string is. HMB
     
  9. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    It should have no affect what so ever.......NOW if he just points and sprays it will......It has no effect when proper technique is used. Only bad habits will show with different lock times.
     
  10. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Ok Dan, your argument has been conclusively settled. The faster lock time on your friend's new MachOne either will, won't, or might cause him to miss angles and/or straightaways.

    Got any more questions for the ts.c brain trust to address?

    sissy : )
     
  11. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Depends on how consistant and proficient of a shooter he is. He has to be good enough to notice the difference. Alf is right.
     
  12. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I beleive it was Digweed who said something to the effect that, lead all looked the same to him no matter what the distance......Bunker shooters say forget lead......if you are looking at lead, your not looking at the target

    Like I said ....bad habits
     
  13. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    We're talking shotguns right? Lock time is measured in milliseconds. I would think that a different weight of trigger pull or the take-up the trigger has, would be more of a concern than lock time. Wayne
     
  14. Roc'n C

    Roc'n C TS Member

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    I went from a P gun to a Mach one and the difference is huge in the lock time, you will shoot behind angles and over straight away, the learning curve will just take time, Chuck
     
  15. mx2005

    mx2005 TS Member

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    CONSISTENCY is the factor in lock time if it changes and the lead stays the same that would makes a difference out of 25 targets, I would think . hey.
     
  16. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    You will shoot under a rising straightaway with a faster trigger time. Think about it.
     
  17. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    "Every thing depends on how long his shot string is." HMB

    ;)

    7 1/2 or 8s?
     
  18. pheasantmaster

    pheasantmaster Well-Known Member

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    One would need to know quality of Model 12 trigger first. Then if release weight of two triggers are same. Hand placement inrelation to trigger (ie angle) has a bearing. How the gun moves for him in relation to how the ole Md12 did also has a play.
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Setterman, I'll say it again. I depends on how he gets his forward allowance. If he comes from below with a gun which swings up traversing the sky faster than the bird (swing-through"), then yes, he will shoot under it, though of course this is all theory and probably is so over-simplified it's not worth even thinking about except here at the keyboard.

    But how about the high-gun-holder who moves the gun over and shoots ("spot shooting")? What will happen then, in theory?

    Or catches bird, cruises a bit with it keeping them going the same speed ("sustained lead") , and shoots?

    Neil
     
  20. folothru

    folothru Member

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    this happened this year: a friend of mine was shooting rem 1100 , he went out and bought a kx5 . and proceeded to miss targets , this guy is an exellant wingshot/ trapshooter. he said watch me shoot and see if i`m stopping,, problem was he was shooting behind everything ...he shot this gun for over a 3000 rnds,almost all summer ,he went back to shootin 1100 after 50 targets he was back in the zone......
     
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