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Help. Proven tricks for leading birds?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by oh shoot, Nov 1, 2007.

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  1. oh shoot

    oh shoot TS Member

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    When shooting trap or skeet, what are some techniques in leading birds that have help you powder more of them?
    How much above trap?
    How far in front of crossing shots?
    I know this "depends" on distance, etc., but post some general techniques, rules of thumb, advice that helped turn the lightbulb on for you and brought you more success. Thanks
     
  2. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Trap ... see bird, cover bird with barrel and BLAMMO ... busted bird.

    Skeet ...
    Station 1 & 7 ... see bird, cover bird with barrel and BLAMMO ... busted bird.

    Station 2 & 6 ... approximate 1 to 2 feet lead and BLAMMO ... busted bird.

    Station 3 & 5 ... approximate 2 to 3 feet lead and BLAMMO ... busted bird.

    Station 4 ... approximate 3 to 4 feet lead and BLAMMO ... busted bird.

    Station 8 ... see bird, cover bird with barrel and BLAMMO ... busted bird.


    Thats the basics ... hope it helps.
     
  3. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    Ditto what the Lumper said!
     
  4. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    No lead, just intercept the bird, shoot, and FOLLOW THROUGH.
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Break the birds over the trap houe. Sta. 1 crosser 1 ft., sta.2, 2 ft., sta. 3, 3 ft., sta. 4, 4 ft. Sta. 5,6,&7 are a mirror image of 1,2,&3. HMB
     
  6. incognito

    incognito TS Member

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    It depends on what gun you shoot. Apparently lumper is shooting a field gun for trap. With a real trap gun you should never cover the bird. With my trap gun I come up to about 1 foot below the bird and fire. This centers the bird in the pattern. If I cover the bird I would shoot well over top of it.
     
  7. smokerz

    smokerz TS Member

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    The lead looks different to different people. Some will tell you they lead 6 feet at station 4, and some will say it's 2 feet. Depends on how fast you swing and the connection time from brain to trigger finger. Learn to always follow through, and you'll soon discover the apparent lead which works for you. You also need to learn and repeat the foot positions and hold points which work for you.

    If you can find a copy of Missildine's book, [click the link] it's a good place to start. Lumper's numbers are close to what most folks see.
     
  8. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    For skeet, go out and get Todd Bender's DVD, I think its titled, "Insights to Championship Skeet Shooting" or something like that.

    Really helped my game.
     
  9. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Oh yeah ... once you get the right feel and such it becomes almost instinctive from that point on and I mean instinctive as to yep ... it looks and feels right and BLAMMO its another broken bird.

    Incognito ... no not a field gun but have shot many a target with a field gun. Currently though I shoot more of a sporting clay stocked gun that a true actual trap gun. Personally I feel that if the gun fits you correctly and you can shoot the gun it does not have to be a trap gun to shoot trap or a skeet gun to shoot skeet or a sporting clay gun to shoot sporting clays. Far to many people believe it is the gun or the shell or who knows what but in reality it is the shooter who breaks the bird as long as the shooter knows there gun and there shells. When I see the target and begin to cover the target I BLAMMO the targets goes poof usually many more times than it escapes as breeding stock.
     
  10. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Whiz White. For extreem angle birds, pick up your timing and swing through the bird. Foot position is also very important. After a while, you simply see only the bird and just know when to shoot.
     
  11. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

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    Imagine ol' Lumper posting something with no discernable humor or hooks. Oh well, so much for stereotypes. Anyway, what Lumper said. And, on the issue of vertical lead and whether you cover the bird or float it with a trap gun, I assume that was a different issue. One other thing, most skeet shooters use a sustainted lead (except at station 8). Most trapshooters a swing through technique. Jake
     
  12. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Jake ... I'm sorry.
     
  13. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Some good advice above. One thing that I find helps new people that are having trouble hitting is for them to double the lead and if that doesn't help to double it again. If everybody says that you are missing behind them then double even triple your lead and try to miss in front of them. The light bulb will light up when you get a break that the lead was well outside of your comfort zone. remember, If you keep doing what you are doing the results will stay where they are now. Jeff
     
  14. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Along the lines of suggestive hints like Jeff is giving ...

    On the skeet field take 2 stacks of about 6 or 8 birds and go out to the center stake with them and set them on the ground approximately 5 or so feet to the left and right of the stake. Now when you stand on station 1 to 7 that is the approximate lead you will be looking for. It aint exacting but it is relatively close to the approximate lead you will want to have give or take a little.

    Oh yeah ... be sure when shooting skeet to use a much more open choke than you would use for trap. This is one simple and very dumb mistake people make ... forgetting to change there chokes when they go from trap to skeet or skeet to trap.
     
  15. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    A guy that was teaching me to shoot skeet at Oklahoma AFB in 71 had a somewhat comical way of teaching you how to stand on the stations. On stations 1 thru 6 his rule of point your p--ker at the low house allowed you proper upper body swing. Another fella always said to place the middle of your body in line with the upper right had corner of the stand for 1 thru 6. This is for a right hand shooter only. It seems to work for me. Lead for stations 3, 4, and 5 has always been a Tahoe for me. Jackie B.
     
  16. 682b

    682b Member

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    I know this thread is about leads. There is one thing that is more important than the correct lead. Keep your head down. Yes keep your dumb head down and finally KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN. Yes I was yelling. HA HA No matter what your lead is if that rock hard head is not on the stock and your gun doe's not shoot where you are looking your results will be LOST. Have fun and good shooting. JIM
     
  17. webley

    webley TS Member

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    Oh shoot,
    For trap – Olympic Trap or Universal Trench - my gun fires when what little I see of the end of the barrels touches the clay. It’s really an unconscious decision to fire without any thought of lead. The second barrel shot (if required) is also fairly instinctive & fired normally without seeing lead although under certain circumstances I may consciously ensure there’s a little daylight between the now distant clay & the still fast moving barrels. I’m only really aware of how the shot unfolded as I mentally replay it after the event.

    Incognito - I shoot a real trap gun by the way.

    So like Lumper – I don’t see any lead even on very fast & wide angle targets but this is just one way to shoot. For me it’s the simplest way as the movement of the gun muzzles automatically varies in speed relative to the perceived angular speed of the target. It works for me for both OT targets & the slower DTL (ATA) ones. The more deliberate slower style popular with many shooting ATA targets would seem to require some amount of visible lead on at least the angles. It’s certainly a style which works extremely effectively. So pick your style – along with your lead!

    Take Jims advice about keeping the head down (I wish I did more often!)

    Regards

    Russell
     
  18. jimbob

    jimbob TS Member

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    Whatever you don't DON'T LOOK AT THE BARREL. Keep your eye on the target all ALL times.

    I trick I learned wing shooting is not to focus on the birds wings, look at their beaks. Works every time. I think I even read that here on TS.com.
     
  19. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    School-Teacher mentioned something that is as important to me as actually pulling the trigger, and that is FOOT PLACEMENT - and this varies a bit depending on the direction of the wind. In South Dakota we have tourists, pheasants, and WIND!

    When I started shooting in 1974, I was lucky to view the video (well, actually is was 35mm film then) "Shooting with the Remington Pros" many, many, many times. They mentioned many concepts and in order of importance to me were: (1) Gun Fit, (2) Foot Placement, (3) Hold Position, and (4) Follow-through.

    I shoot an EXTREMELY HIGH Perazzi and my foot placement even over thirty years later is as the video (movie) suggested. It has worked for me - I made the 27 yard line 13 months after starting to shoot ATA. I won a handicap event at the Grand in 1974 and have stayed on the 27 ever since. I have made my state's All-State Team for a decade, until I quit shooting registered about 3 years ago. I don't mean to brag, but I think these accomplishments do serve as a basis for successful techniques. I just got tired of standing in the heat, cold, wind, and having to travel so damn far to a good sized shoot - AND my best shooting partner was killed in an accident which devastated me.

    I see guys stand at the 16 with both feet absolutely perpendicular to a straight-a-way (toes on the front of the concrete arc) and do this on every station. Far be it for me to say anything to them, but I never seem them on the 27. You are just making things hard for yourself because if you shoot quickly and rotate your shoulders, this kind of stance is simply not normal to the body's build in reference to a straight-a-way from EACH post.

    Finally, when someone asks me where my barrel was when I shot the bird, I really have no clue... I have to consciously think about it during the next shot, and that's when I'll miss. I "think" I was ahead of the bird, but I know that I shot directly at the bird when I pulled the trigger.

    I NEVER SEE THE BEADS IN THE ACT OF SHOOTING. Beads, not bead. I shoot a trap gun for pheasants... and it's easy to focus on a pheasants head versus his wings... that head is so damn pretty.

    IMHO

    Whiz White
     
  20. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    The best method of establishing lead for trap shooting is Swing Through, because you do not know where the target will be going. Come from behind the target, shoot right at it, just as you clear it for the hard angles. The time it takes for the gun to fire and your follow through establishes the lead.
    There are 3 general thoughts on hold points: Favor the hard angled targets flight, hold for the straight away, hold in the middle of the possible angles. If shooting with 2 eyes open hold about 1/3 the height from where you expect to break the target, one eye open hold on the edge of the trap house. Experiment to find what works for you. Being right handed I find that favoring the right hand angles works best for me.

    The best method for Skeet is Maintained lead: You must have a hard focus on the target, but not so hard you are not aware of the barrel. You should be breaking the target just before the center stake, but a little after is ok for a beginner. Set your feet so the middle of your swing is at the center stake; hold 1/2 way back to the house window. Experiment to find what works best for you.
    For every target on stations 1 thru 7 the "actual" lead is about 4 feet. I suggest you set a stack of 3 or 5 targets about 2 feet on either side of the center stake. From each station the perceived distance between the 2 stacks is the approximate lead needed. Station 8 use Swing Through, hold on upper outside corner of the window or a little above; swing to the target, shoot right at it.

    What has really helped me is having some one who can actually see where I am missing the targets and tell me how much to adjust. For Skeet there are certified instructor available. Check out the website above.

    Jason
     
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