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Help Identify These Primers

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by claykiller, May 3, 2012.

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  1. claykiller

    claykiller Member

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    For all you knowledge hounds out there, I need your help. Obviously these primers are Alcan Shotshell Primers, but does anybody know their history? On the Back of the box it states (I took a picture but the print comes out blurry no matter what I do) "Made in Italy Giulio Fiocchi Lecco" Then it gives a description of what their make up is and suggestions on components to use them with. I won't bore you with all the print but in particular it states: "Primers fit Remington and Peters fired shot shells."

    I have 800 of them and they are in perfectly fine condition. They are certainly smaller than a typical 209 primer and will not fit any Remington (STS, Gun Club), Winchester (AA), or Federal (Gold Medal) shell I have. Not long ago I had some Peters Blue Magic shells but they are all gone so no test fits there. I wish I could give an exact size, but no calipers. I think I just made an excuse to go buy calipers.

    Thanks ahead of time for imparting you knowledge.
     
  2. goony

    goony Active Member

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    Just a guess but the 57 probably indicates a replacement for the old Remington Peters hulls that required a #57 primer. These were smaller in diameter than the 209.
    Mike
     
  3. notquite27

    notquite27 TS Member

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    They were used up until the early 70's as replacements for the Remington #57 in field grade shotshells, and 28/410 hulls.
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    They were made for Remington SP hulls which were discontinued over 30 years ago. HMB
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    somebody probably still shoots them. Ask Dr Longshot...
     
  6. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I have two boxes of the Alcan primers in my collection.



    grntitan_2009_250395.jpg
     
  7. pitt4570

    pitt4570 Member

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    use them in old rem's or cut a soda straw of the correct dia slip fit or press fitover the primer and shoot them in a 209 hull works great use an easy to light powder shoot em up
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Those Alcan Max-Fires in 209s were my primers of choice in the 60s early 70s!! Most powerful primer of that time! More so than the Fed 209s.

    Hap
     
  9. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    They fit the older SP case by Remington.The newer SP case takes the larger primer.

    The 57's mic's out at .228 compared to the Winchester style at 243. If these are sealed they can be used with Ball powder. If they are not sealed. They should not be used with Ball powders. They made them both sealed and unsealed.

    The cases from Remington/Peters are high brass(really Steel, yes that long ago)the base wad is a fiber composition and pieces of them come out in every firing. The base wad burns out a bit at a time, after three/four loads its hard to get a good crimp.

    I have about 2000 of these cases I got in a package deal. I had to haul them off to get what I was really wanting. I just figured on throwing them away. When I got home I found the cases had been resized and primed. So I shoot them at games. They hold a good 1-1/4 load.

    Ajax
     
  10. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Inside every old geezer there is an young person, thinking how in the hell did this happen!

    Ajax
     
  11. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I bet they would work perfect in these once fired Alcan Paper hulls.....,


    grntitan_2009_250335.jpg
     
  12. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Just tried that soda straw idea, looks like it will work just fine. I'll try a few shells out tomorrow. HMB
     
  13. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I used lot's of the 209 MaxFires. Hottest shotgun primer at the time. Similar in performence to Federal primers. Lot's of reloading history in and around Alcan.
     
  14. smokinold32

    smokinold32 Member

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    What I think you have is Alcan 57's. I loaded them in the Remington All American shotshell. It was a plastic shell with a high base wad. It took a short wad for 1 1/8 oz. load. It might have been the Remington 12L wad but it has been so long that I don't recall for sure. It had a smaller diameter than the 97 primers. They worked good in a MEC tube feeder. I loaded them in the early 1970's, then Alcan went out of business I think. Alcan also made a high brass shell for flyers. I'm pretty sure it was a light pink shell and it was paper. Some years ago a friend of mine passed and he had a small gun repair/reloading shop. I wish I would have kept some of the old primer boxes, some had wooden trays that held the primers. I can't recall the primer brand but we all had a good laugh when we seen the price on the box for 100 was 34 cents. The good old days....
    Good luck with the Bob
     
  15. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Those paper Alcan cases take the 220/Max-Fire primer. I ended up with a hole mess of those also ;)

    This was the stuff I started with in 1966.
    Air Wedge/Feltan-Bluestreak/Plastic Kwiksert. WOW,I am old.

    Ajax
     
  16. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    The 57 and 157 were compatible in size, the 97 and 209's are compatible in size.
    toolmaker251_2008_0303189.jpg
     
  17. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Toolmaker: It's been a long time and I can't remember. Did they change the number from 57 to 157 when they sealed the Flash hole?

    Ajax
     
  18. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Ajax, the 57 and 157 both had sealed flash holes, the Remington 97's had no seal.
     
  19. Ed Y

    Ed Y TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I believe that they will fit Alcan's all brass hulls. I still use them for black powder shells.

    Ed Yanchok
     
  20. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Ed is correct, this is a new box of Alcan all brass shells and on the packaging it requests to use 57 primers. The Alcan primers were made for them by Fiocchi in Italy.
    toolmaker251_2008_0303190.jpg
     
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