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Help - Gun mount / POI problem

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by smp005, Jun 6, 2007.

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  1. smp005

    smp005 Member

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    OK - This is driving me crazy...

    I shoot an unsingle with a high POI. My rib is adjusted to give me 90/10. My problem is my gun mount - when I mount the gun correctly I smoke the targets, when I don't I struggle. The problem is the correct mount has the stock firm and low in my shoulder but I have to really bring my head down and weld my face hard to the comb. What happens is, as the round proceeds I tend to let the stock drift a little higher in my shoulder, which "feels" better as far as my cheek on the comb and how far I have to bring my head down. I would like to adjust so I can keep my head a little more naturally erect and have a more consistent gun mount while maintaining my high POI.

    I notice it even more when I switch to my doubles barrels

    I know it sounds crazy but the variation in mount seems to be so slight that I have a hard time even feeling the difference - especially as the day rolls on and I shoot more events...

    My stock is fully adustable (comb and butt)

    Thanks!!!

    Scott Powell

    Copley Trap Range
     
  2. Ruck

    Ruck Well-Known Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,044
    Since you have an adjustable butt plate, lower the recoil pad to give you a more head up mount. This will in effect raise the whole gun up while maintaining the location you want for the pad on your shoulder. It won't change your poi.

    Ken Rucker
     
  3. Straight99

    Straight99 Member

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    You answered your own question. Your gun does not fit you. You should not have to bring your head down to see a good sight picture. Try moving the comb up higher. It might also help if you could find someone that knows what to do help you. Glenn
     
  4. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Geez Scott, you sound like me. If you like the shoulder feel of your "correct" gun mount, want to keep the same POI AND make your cheek comfortable, try one of the following.

    Add the same amount of height to the rib (add-on rib) and the comb (more spacers). That will bring your cheek up without changing anything except the angle of your head on the stock.

    Or, adjust the butt plate and slide the pad down a touch. That will accomplish the same thing.

    Or, add spacers under the comb AND raise the rib to 60/40 or 50/50 position to match. That raises the bead to match the added comb height. A little fiddling will get it perfect. This will destroy the classic Figure 8 sight picture, if you care about such things. I find I shoot better if I see a little rib between the beads.

    Another thing I would try is a different pad. I use a KickEeze Modified trap pad. It is essentially a classic trap pad with the toe rounded. It helps improve the consistency of your gun mount, and eliminates some of the extra rotation you get if you accidentally mount higher. I've also found shooting in the lightest, unpadded clothing you can get away with helps.

    If you are like me, it would seem that simply mounting the gun higher and raising your head to match would do the trick. It doesn't. I also have to lean my head way forward and down, and mash my cheek against the comb. I shoot well that way and I tend to move as a unit, all locked in. With my head more erect, I am more likely to arm swing or lift my head. That causes misses. It will take you some time to adjust to a higher head position.
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    go with Ken's suggestion. I've had to do the same with my mx-15. Doe's not change the poi. Raising the comb certainly will.
     
  6. BBMAX

    BBMAX TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    40
    Good morning Scott - Many of the folks above have some great thoughts. I'd like to add that you might want to get your stock fitted properly. In the old days (before everything was adjustable) trap shooters scrunched themselves around the gun so it sort of fitted and the brain made the adjustments over time.

    Now, you can get your gun to fit properly for every shot and not have to depend on contorting yourself around the gun. Many shooters have a very bad habit of planting the butt of the gun into their shoulder and then droping their head onto the comb. This brings about two potential problems (1) raising your head - making you shot over the target even though it looks correct, and (2) you can tie up on hard angles from Posts #1 and #5 - making you shoot high and behind the target. SOLUTION - bring the gun up to your cheek bone first and then plant it into your shoulder. Do it slowly and you should get the same sight picture every time cancelling out the above mentioned problems and this works for summer and winter as the face should be the constant.

    I hope this is helpful. Get fitted and check the patterning board. Then shoot straight aways from Post #3 untill you are smoking the targets. Have a great shooting season.

    Bruce Maxwell
     
  7. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Ruck
    , He got it right follow his instructions !!!!
     
  8. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Scott,

    A correct gun mount places the heel of the stock, even with the top of your shoulder. From what you wrote, you apparently mount it lower and apparently unintentionally raise it to eliminate the discomfort caused by having to lower your head too far to place your cheek on the comb.

    As ruck/Ken Rucker mentioned, lowering the recoil pad would allow you to avoid having to lower your head as far as you do now. With the recoil pad in the same position, lowering the pad would raise the level of the comb so you would not have to lower your head as far as you do now. That may be treating a symptom and ignoring the cause of the problem, however - that of a low gun mount.

    I suggest trying to determine why you prefer mounting the gun as low as you apparently do. The stock dimensions of cast at the toe or its pitch may be involved but at this point. Chances are very good that your stock doesn't fit you.

    Raising the head during swings is one of several problems that can arise from having to lower the head so far to place your cheek on the comb. It would be best to look for ill-fitting stock dimensions that may be the cause of your low gun mount.

    Rollin
     
  9. smp005

    smp005 Member

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    Rollin,

    I ordered your book last nite..... You are correct that raising my head during swings is a common result - especially on doubles...

    I had my pad lowered which raised the stock in my shoulder and felt pretty good - what was odd was that while configured that way, if I shouldered the gun lower, I would dust the target consistently.. So - I found myself lowering the gun in my shoulder - especially during doubles, but I can't keep consistent.

    I'm going to return my pad back to the lowered position where I had it and see how that does. The one thing I did not do was when I lowered the front of my adustable rib to be high POI, I did not adjust my comb which may be causing part of the problem..

    Both of my kids have been fitted by Todd Nelson (Country Gentleman) and if he makes the Ohio State Shoot I intend to do the same - but I'm trying to get a handle on it prior to the shoot... It really became evident during the Buckeye Classic for some reason.. The weekend before I shot doubles in the mid 90s at Jaquas in mild temps, it has kinda humid at Cardinal last weekend and I think it made the lower mount more uncomfortable which meant I started lifting my head....

    Everyone - thanks for the input!! It;s funny, I work with SCTP shooters as a coach almost everyday but struggle with my own gunfit....

    Scott
     
  10. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Scott,

    Thank you for your order. The book will explain everything in detail but what is probably happening is that your eye, relative to the rib, is moving during swings. Also, with gun mounts of different heights, the level of the eye, relative to the rib, can change during swings because of its insecure position to start.

    Part of that involves the pressure of the cheek on the comb. This, of course, can be compensated by a comb-height adjustment. With a good gun mount and enough drop at the heel, the position of the head on the stock is much more secure and much more likely to remain stationary relative to the rib during swings.

    As you may be suspecting, drop at the heel, drop at the comb and the height of one's gun mount are all interrelated. Change one and the other two are likely to be affected.

    Rollin
     
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