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Help compare AA & Winchester Super Target & Estate

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Jack L. Smith, Dec 17, 2010.

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  1. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

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    I typically shoot new Estate #8, 1 oz loads 2-3/4dr. I may switch, or try another brand. I would like a brief explaination as to what are the interior differences in these shells.

    AA
    Winchester Super Target
    Estate

    I do not reload, and I am wondering why the prices are significantly different in each?

    thanks,
    js in PA
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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  3. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

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    you break more with the AA's than the estates because of your confidence level.. you may think i'm kidding.. when I was a kid I bought the cheapest shells there were..(just like today.lol.) when the winchester westerns were on sale I bought them.. I couldnt hit a dove with them to save my life.. when I could buy some Remington Peters I would smoke them.. I got a kid on my trap team now.. you give him federal 1 1/8 shells and he will shoot a 85.. give him aa's he will shoot a 92.. I know I have kept up with it for 2 years now..
     
  4. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

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    Thanks, these are helpful comments. I too have hit many high 90's scores with Estates, but I am always looking for improvements, that make sense.

    Does any body actually know if the wads, or other components are superior, (& how) in the AA's or STS type (more expenvise shells).

    I understand the premium shells may 'perform better" but why?

    thanks,

    I am not trolling, I really am looking for some comparitive analysis from more knowledge-able fellows than I, to understand the 40% price variation.

    PS - Rick Barker - I was pleased to hear your thoughts about the Super targets; I just saw them for the same as Estates.

    js in PA
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If you do not reload, I don't know how to accurately explain any difference. I do shoot a lot of Estates for singles and the second doubles target at smaller shoots. At larger shoots, I use new AA shells. I have no factual test data to support what I do. It seems logical, but not necessarily true, that to make a cheaper shell, cheaper components must be used.

    In Dr. Jones book he does describe some differences between discount shells and premium shells, but the discount shells he tested are not widely available in the USA.

    I would not reload any discount shell hull. One major reason for this is that I have a lot, a very lot, new AA hulls to reload. The Winchester shells do not seem to work well in my gun. Some go off and some do not go off. That is probably due to my gun and not the shells.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. loop02

    loop02 Member

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    Danny won the 2010 GAH with 1 oz. estates Ran 100 straight. Maybe it's the old arrow/indian thing. Keep your head down. 2 3/4 Paper 8"s won the $100,000.00
     
  7. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Jack, First I will tell you that the Estates have higher antimony 5% and the Winchester Super Targets have around 3% antimony. STS's and AA's have 6% antimony!!! Second, is only way to tell is for you to pattern your gun with both of these shells and see which one gives you a better pattern. Estates are the best economy loads out there from the info I have put together. But patterns and practice is were you need to look, not shells. Good Luck and Break-em all. Jeff
     
  8. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

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    Jeff Barker, that is good advice! I do have several other patterns from the Estates and I can compare.

    As to the 'supply chain" I think readers would still like anybody with details on this issue to chime in. For instance, are the premium shells made in the same facilites (or same manufacturing assembly line?)

    Are the wads different? etc.

    I wonder if any Ammunition reps have any thoughts they would share with this forum? If there are are components differences, or advantages I would hope they would like to share their FAB (features/advantages/benefits)on their products here with this active trapshooting readership.

    thanks everybody,
    js in PA
     
  9. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    If the Estates pattern just as good as AA's then wads must not make any difference.
     
  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Lincoln, Yugo, and Ford.

    HM
     
  11. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Cut 3 shells of each up.. weigh the shot.. count the pellets... check the hardness..check the uniformity of size and roundness.. you be the judge..
     
  12. mx2005

    mx2005 TS Member

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    JLS From what I have been told by Federal is that the Estates and the Top guns are the same except for the Hulls are a little different .

    The Winchester Super Targets I used 1 1/8 and 1. oz loads for 16 yds 8 shot and also used 1. oz 9 shot for skeet and like all of them no problem they are a harder recoiling shell then the Estates and the Top guns.

    Out of all of the above the 1oz Super Targets are better out of my shotgun then the others but it just might have been the mind set that day, at 16yds I don't think you can go wrong with any 1oz 8 or 8.5 shot I like the speed of the 1oz loads my self and the less recoil.

    I feel to much is put on loads and not enough on concentration of just focusing on the target and the movement of the gun to the target. Once you get the best load for you're shotgun just break the bird and have fun. PK
     
  13. Tom Strunk

    Tom Strunk Well-Known Member

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    I usually shoot Remington shells. STS light 8's and 7 1/2's for singles and second shot in doubles. I also shoot STS 3 dram 7 1/2's for handicap.

    With that being said I am not against using both the Super Target light 8's for singles as I did to win the Arizona State singles championship (199 in the wind) in March and the Estate H-7 1/2's once in a while (shot a 98 with them from the 27) I have no problem with the quality of either of these shells. Buy what you can as the price will be going up soon. I have over 75 flats of STS's on hand but I just bought another 20 flats of Estate Heavy 7 1/2's lately as I got such a good deal I couldn't past them up. My advise is to stock up on all you can afford.


    Tom Strunk
     
  14. tab

    tab Member

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    If you like 1 oz. loads, try Kemens. They have a very nice soft and quick load.
     
  15. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    They are all better than any of us.
     
  16. batman1004

    batman1004 TS Member

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    Estates are great singles and doubles shells I like light 7 1/2 I have shot win super targets not nearly as good win AA for the price you might as well shoot fed or sts AA quality at win. have gone way down since 2000 would not shoot them. Now if win. was smart they should start making the old super target papers again then sales would jump thru the roof and would put win. on top again. PS the cheap shells are not better than the good shooter especialy at 27yd. line geo.
     
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