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helice?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by sean justice, Aug 2, 2009.

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  1. sean justice

    sean justice TS Member

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    looks really cool, why not more popular, is it expensive, im fairly young and always have been intrigued by flyers. never been to one but would love to check it out.
     
  2. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Everything you need to know.


    Eric
     
  3. Guy

    Guy Member

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    It's really not expensive....depends on how you look at it.

    The biggest difference is that it's just a different kind of day.....you don't shoot as many shells as trap.....you toe the line and shoot 5, then go to the back of the line while the others shoot....a 30 target race is typical....so if you take 2 shots at every target, you will shoot 2 boxes + of shells.....plus maybe 10 targets practice to start. A 15 to 20 player shoot will usually end by 2-3pm or so.

    Generally costs $60 targets only....so add in your shell cost and there you have it. The cost to shoot two events in trap + shells is more than that. Most shoot flyer loads, so shell cost is slightly higher, and reloads are not allowed for the event.

    Where I shoot, we throw in $90 towards the purse.....for a total entry of $150. But the money is paid out differently.....usually $30 to each 15, plus $30 to high over all.....but if you win high over all, you cannot win either the front or the back 15....also we pay down 2 places usually, ties divide, depending on the number of players....so if there are 15 players, usually half or more get paid. Also, entry includes lunch, sodas, water, etc.

    I'd guess that half of the players where I shoot are pigeon shooters....so find some ZZ's, and you'll have a good chance of finding flyers too.
     
  4. Hatshooter

    Hatshooter TS Member

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    I went to the website, looks like most of the action is in TX, some in CA.
     
  5. Guy

    Guy Member

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    There are probably many clubs that could put in a ZZ ring....but what it really takes is someone to "ramrod" it....and 10 to 20 players to shoot at least monthly....and about $20K to build the ring, equipment, shack, covered area for tables, chairs, benches, gun racks.

    A club can make it's money back relatively quickly if they have that core group of players.....too bad that many think it is expensive.....but figure what you spend to shoot 3 events at trap + shells + practice + lunch.....at ZZ's you could play all the money for that. Figure this: 10 players, $30 to each 15 and HOA, paid 60/40 each 15....a second place score pays $120....first $180, and that's on each 15. Win $300 HOA. Have you won $180 shooting trap lately?

    I will say that several trap shooters have tried ZZ's and not come back.....it's a tough game.....and you'll stink it up for awhile.

    Now, look out if you get that invitation to shoot flyers....it's heroin.
     
  6. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Theadore Wells ( wbunch@crcom.net ) makes Helice machines, and knows where all of them are. Many are private, but sometimes ...

    Most of the ZZ shooters, or many, anyhow, also shoot boxbirds - privately.

    It's a tough game, but fun.


    Bob
     
  7. Hatshooter

    Hatshooter TS Member

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    a good friend once descibed flyers to me as, shooters cocaine. I went to my 1st shoot & he was right. it gets in your blood. quickly. guess I need to find some helice in middle TN.
     
  8. texasaggie2000

    texasaggie2000 Member

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    For what it is worth, the US Helice organization is now mandating 1 ounce loads for official matches. We have found that it does not seem to make much difference in the scores.
     
  9. little gambler

    little gambler Active Member

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    texasaggie2000,

    "For what it is worth, the US Helice organization is now mandating 1 ounce loads for official matches. We have found that it does not seem to make much difference in the scores"

    I can see the difference in that there has been one 27 and one 25 shot and all other scores have been way lower than average......am I missing something? They just got done shooting in Carson City, where I would almost wager that scores this year won't even come close to last years daily winners and HOA winning scores.

    My point is that is a damn tough target for only 1 oz of shot in ea barrel. I think that the hardcore helice guys will stay and it is going to drive the on the fence guys out. This game needs all the shooters it can get. Years ago I can remember 89 shooters at Reno! l.g.
     
  10. texasaggie2000

    texasaggie2000 Member

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    gambler,

    I guess I have to conceded,it has to make some difference (I am not one of those guys that is going to try to convince anyone that more shot is not more of an advantage). From my experience it is a game that whose scores are much more dependent on weather than other shotgun games, and I have no idea what the weather was like when those scores were shot.

    I do know that the US team did very well at the world shoot (which was 1 ounce loads) as two of our members shot 24 out of 25 to finish 3rd and 6th.

    I don't think the required loads have anything to do with the popularity of the sport. I guarantee that last year there were not 89 shooters at any helice event and we were still aloud to shoot the 1 1/4 shells.
     
  11. little gambler

    little gambler Active Member

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    texasaggie2000,

    I agree about the weather controlling the game more than any single factor, and to be fair about the scores, I have heard that it was windy down in Dallas this year, therefore maybe that was not the best place to judge the scores, but I have not heard about the conditions that shooters faced in Carson City last week.

    But with the new load change, I think a straight pot is going to be almost unobtainable with 1oz. I think there has only been two or three 30's at USHA shoots since the last 7 years.

    Time will definitely tell, who knows, perhaps the scores will follow the bunker trap scores of going up with actual less shot used once competitors get used to them and get guns dialed into them. :)
     
  12. Guy

    Guy Member

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    Gentlemen: The 1 oz. requirement is for USA Team Selection Matches only. All four clubs where I shoot allow whatever you want all other times. Trust me, nobody will shoot 1 oz.

    The World Championships in Portugal were won by the US Team....with pigeon loads....the 1 oz. requirement begins now for the 2010 Team shoots and next years Championships.

    Most in the know think it will be repealed. It's a FITASC deal.

    Carson City had 4 shooters on Saturday, and 5 on Sunday.....they were the only ones because they needed the points for USA Team Qualification....nobody wants to shoot 1 oz.

    We're shooting this Sunday at Stockton and I bet there will be 15 to 20 players....with pigeon loads.

    If you haven't tried this, you need to.

    One more thing....Mike Bogetti, USA Team member for the past few years, and one of the best ZZ and pigeon shooters around, broke a 16 on Saturday at Carson City with 1 oz loads and a load 'em. You think he'll shoot 1 oz at the other shoots?
     
  13. little gambler

    little gambler Active Member

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    Bogetti with a load'em???..........I'm calling to harass first thing this morning......even that late breaking news did not make it to Oregon yet. l.g.
     
  14. texasaggie2000

    texasaggie2000 Member

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    A wise man once told me that there are two types of people in this world, those that have shot a load'em and those that are going to shoot a load'em.

    You are correct about the selection matches being the only place it is required, and it appears it might make a bigger difference than I thought. Still a frustrating game, even with the big loads!

    If you want to shoot in some windy conditions, head down to Theodore's in September!
     
  15. mrpheyed

    mrpheyed TS Member

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    What's a load'em ?
     
  16. texasaggie2000

    texasaggie2000 Member

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    A load'em is when a shooter misses all 5 of the helice targets in one crank (thus going 0 for 5). The vernacular hails from flyer shooting.
     
  17. Big Al 29

    Big Al 29 TS Member

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    Pretty informative video on ZZ bird:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG-ubHWZjTc&feature=related
     
  18. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    So how are the machines loaded? Are the wings reuseable? Do the machines oscilate?

    It looks like fun...


    Guy B.
     
  19. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    scores at Helice are typically lower than flyers.
     
  20. texasaggie2000

    texasaggie2000 Member

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    The machines are loaded by hand. There is an auto loader in the works, but I don't think any have been distrubuted yet.

    The wings are generally not reusable, but the witness caps can be. I have seen wings loaded with a few holes in them, and they tend to fly ok, but you never know. I have never seen wings reused in an official selection match.

    The machines do oscilate, and it is behind a trap door, so you cannot see which way they are pointing.
     
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