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Health insurer profits not so fat

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Paladin, Oct 25, 2009.

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  1. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    This is just another example of the Obama administration throwing out inaccurate information. Much of what comes from this administration can be classified as plain lies.




    Today, from the AP.


    "WASHINGTON – Quick quiz: What do these enterprises have in common? Farm and construction machinery, Tupperware, the railroads, Hershey sweets, Yum food brands and Yahoo? Answer: They're all more profitable than the health insurance industry. In the health care debate, Democrats and their allies have gone after insurance companies as rapacious profiteers making "immoral" and "obscene" returns while "the bodies pile up."


    "Ledgers tell a different reality. Health insurance profit margins typically run about 6 percent, give or take a point or two. That's anemic compared with other forms of insurance and a broad array of industries, even some beleaguered ones.

    Profits barely exceeded 2 percent of revenues in the latest annual measure. This partly explains why the credit ratings of some of the largest insurers were downgraded to negative from stable heading into this year, as investors were warned of a stagnant if not shrinking market for private plans."


    _"I'm very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., who also welcomed the attention being drawn to insurers' "obscene profits."


    "But were the Bush years golden ones for health insurers?

    Not judging by profit margins, profit growth or returns to shareholders. The industry's overall profits grew only 8.8 percent from 2003 to 2008, and its margins year to year, from 2005 forward, never cracked 8 percent."



    It's very obvious that the very best we can ever expect from this administration is over three more years of lies. Hussein and the liberals wrote the book on the culture of corruption and deceit.
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I'm glad you posted this, Paladin - because it highlights one of the main reasons the current debate is happening the way it is:


    Health Insurance, and Health Care in general, are "Parasite Industries." They ride off of the profits generated in other sectors of the economy. As industrial jobs have gone away, Health Insurance profits have been DROPPING, due to the attendant decline in the number of people enrolled in good, solid employer-sponsored plans. Good manufacturing jobs tend to come with good company benefits, thereby keeping enrollment numbers high for private insurance. Anything that messes with that pattern, messes with private insurance profits in a big way. The good jobs go away - along with the benefits they provide - and the good insurance profits go with it.


    The dirty secret is, there's a reason you haven't seen the Insurance Industry running too many nasty ads against the Obama plan - they hope it will restore their customer base! The Industry is playing "footsie" with the purveyors of Obama Care, because they hope the final legislative product will be written in a way that brings back some of the enrollment numbers they've lost as American jobs go away (read "The Individual Mandate").


    The Insurance Industry is teetering on a very precarious fence - if they fall to one side, the Public Option gets passed and they're mostly out of business in 10 years. On the other hand, if it teeters the other way and NOTHING PASSES, the Industry gets no INDIVIDUAL MANDATE - and has to ride out the same secular decline pattern in American employment (and insurance plan enrollment) that has already been eroding their profits to begin with.


    American industry - the Insurance Industry included - have gotten together and decided they WANT some form of Obama Care to pass - just not too much of it.


    They played ball with the Obama people, "trusting" that the Obama administration won't ram it up them too hard on the final bill. We shall see if their trust was well-placed, and it won't be long now.
     
  3. dhwbailey

    dhwbailey Member

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    There should be no profit from health insurance.

    In my view, it's immoral to profit from the misfortune of others. All health care should be non-profit, run either by a non-profit corporation, or the government.

    That's just a Canadian's point of view. No offense meant. Just another point of view.
     
  4. gun1357

    gun1357 Active Member

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    Can we take the Canadian view one step further? Food is more important than health care. Maybe we shout outlaw profits for farmers and all businesses in the food industry. Ron 8^)
     
  5. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    What gun1357 said.


    Everyone has their own 'profitable' sand box, and they don't want any other sand box to be profitable except their own. Liberals are the absolute worst offenders.
     
  6. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    Buzz, would it not make sense then to get Americans back to work first. Nah, that would be helping the immoral insurance that is profiting on the misfortune of others.
     
  7. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Paladin, that's exactly what the Canadian guy is saying...."If I earn it, it's the hard-earned product of my skill, knowlege, and labors...if some other guy earns it, it's rapacious greed that ought to be outlawed."


    Any take-home pay that an employee gets is "profit," on the individual level. To say that nobody should profit off caring for somebody else, is to say that he should basically work for free.


    I don't know about you, but when I'm sick (talking about SERIOUS stuff, not runny noses), I don't want to be cared for by strangers who work for free. The "Village Shaman" approach has already been tried in other cultures, and I can't say I like it much.
     
  8. gun1357

    gun1357 Active Member

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    I have to be one of the worst. I am in the water business in South Texas. I'll have to admit to making a little profit here and there. I guess this is my "sandbox". Ron 8^)
     
  9. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    I'm agreeing with your point in your first post Ron.
     
  10. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    Insurance companies should lose there exemption so they can compete across state lines. My Medicare Advantage Ins. Co. is a subsidiary of a company that owns separate Ins. companies in each of the 50 states.

    I have been notified that my monthly premium is going up next year from $25 to $59 and my co-pay from $10 to $20. Ouch!
     
  11. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    dhwbailey, does that mean that if you got a REALLY good deal on a house because the owner had to sell it quickly, that you wouldn't buy it because you think it would be immoral?

    There have been many instances of people selling their houses to pay off medical bills, you know.
     
  12. dhwbailey

    dhwbailey Member

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    dhwbailey, does that mean that if you got a REALLY good deal on a house because the owner had to sell it quickly, that you wouldn't buy it because you think it would be immoral?

    There have been many instances of people selling their houses to pay off medical bills, you know.

    My point is, there is a difference between profit from real estate, and profit from health care. Of course you can profit from the sale of a house, because it's a matter of choice. Ill health, by and large, is not by choice, buy merely happenstance. Good health is a gift. Poor health is a curse.

    On your other point re selling a house to pay medical bills, that's the point of public health care. A person would NEVER have to sell their house in Canada to pay medical bills.That's the peace of mind we enjoy because of public health care.
     
  13. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I spent many years working in the Insurance Industry. The fact is they make very little on your premiums be it health insurance, auto, home. Life insurance is profitable but the way they make most of their money is by investing the premiums in stock, real estate etc. They have a very large cash flow to invest. The insurance business is very competitive. Right now they are not making much on investments just like us so expect premiums to skyrocket in the future.
     
  14. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    I think I read that the percentage of profit for the health care industry was close to 7%, just under 7 actually. Think about how much the banks will give you on your money now. How much will you make on 100,000 for five years in the bank? Now tell me that they don't make any money. Before you state that health care companies don't report any income tell me how much their executives are paid, how many of them are there and how well the people who's hard earned money is spent to pay those salaries feel about the service they are covered by from those companies. I feel no sorrow for those companies at all. They were started for profit and not the well being of those they cover. It's all about the money in America. In Canada they actually have health care. In America only individuals who care about their own health, who take the steps needed to take care of themselves have health care. The rest of us have sick care, or accident care. Those are the two times we actually see a doctor or a nurse.

    That needs to be changed in America. We need to actually go back to eating correctly and taking care of our health in a manner that keeps us in better shape than we as a whole are today. TIMBER!!!!!!!!!!!! The soap box broke and I fell off. That's gonna leave a mark:) Dan
     
  15. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Yeah, do away with profits, lets all work for free! If you got a job and you make 35k a year isn't that a profit? The government thinks it is a profit, because they tax it.

    I wish the hell people were making more obscene profits, then maybe my business would pick up. Right now, I'm only getting work from people who are making profits, the damn people who don't have any money aren't helping me out.

    I hope their is some doctor out there who is raking in a lot of money and wants to go spend it on a brand new motorhome. Why, because in 7 or 8 years when I retire, he might want a new one and then I can purchase his old one for 1/5 the cost of a new. Then I can hit the trap circuit. Shooting every day, I might finally get better.

    No profits, mean no money to buy new equipment. Yeah, let's go the no profit way, you go in for surgery and the high school dropout gets his butcher knife out to do the surgery. Great, let's all be happy knowing the guy isn't making any money.

    Liberals are amazing. If a company makes a profit they are angry, if a company loses money and has to lay off people they are angry.
     
  16. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    danny boy,,,,if you feel this way, why don't you move to a country where companies don't make those "obscene" profits,,,,venezuela, cuba, iceland et. al.,,,,ring a bell,,,,here's a NOVEL idea, instead of whining like a little girl,,,,why don't you use your money and create a company that doesn't make a profit and we could use your great idea as a model of industry....
     
  17. hunter870

    hunter870 Member

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    here's a concept I've never been able to understand...I'm being really simplistic.

    1000 people buy healthcare insurance.

    They each pay an average of 2500 in premiums this year (you can also make this $2500 in taxes if you posit a government program. This model doesn't even begin to address who pays more or less in premiums/taxes.

    If their collective medical benefits (plus overhead)paid out exceed $2,500,000, who pays the rest?

    a. Future enrollees or tax paying children.

    b. Additional enrollees or taxpayers this year.

    In the case of private industry, future enrollees must be depended upon unless the company collapses or purchased by a bigger company...thus continuing the chain of events.

    In the case of government programs, the only possible results are collapse of the program of further extension of credit to be paid by future taxpayers.

    In either case, this seems awfully....Ponzi?
     
  18. bocephus

    bocephus Member

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    dahaub said:

    "In America only individuals who care about their own health, who take the steps needed to take care of themselves have health care. The rest of us have sick care, or accident care. Those are the two times we actually see a doctor or a nurse."

    dahaub are are saying you are too lazy to take the steps needed to care for yourself? That is typical of you leftist nutcases, force others to be responsible for you and pay your way since you are totally incapable of anything except whining and sniveling at the thought of any private company making a profit!

    It is sad that so many have no clue what "individualism" or "self reliance" mean or that they are in fact what made this country great to begin with.
     
  19. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Hope you know the rules 'cause yer already in the game.
     
  20. jagrdawger

    jagrdawger TS Member

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    I guess all that readily available, top quality health care in Canada is why I used to see so many Canadian license plates in medical clinic parking lots in upstate New York?!?!?!?!

    I suppose we want their socialist gun laws too? And their highly capable military too?

    Canadians to our north is better than Russians and they are nice people, but there systems???? Too french for me.
     
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