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Has anyone seen a Longshot Load faster than 1585fp

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Jun 9, 2010.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I was wondering if anyone has seen a published Longshot 1 1/8th oz load faster than 1585 fps? In 12 Gauge.

    Was looking for one 1600+fps for #5shot.

    For extremely long shootoffs.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Gary, use an ounce and a sixteenth shot bushing and you should be able to achieve the velocity you desire, a small sacrifice in shot but a significant jump in velocity without adding pressure. Hint, try it using the neon green XL-1 downrange wad in a straight walled hull. If you don't mind my asking, what clubs do you pot shoot at?

    Robert
     
  3. GoldTrigger

    GoldTrigger Member

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    May I ask if anyone on here has ever shot these type loads onto paper ? I am curious how does the choke tubes maintain patterns at these super fast speeds ? Do you use a plated shot as you increase speed to these levels ? Give us newer reloaders some answers here please. I have not crossed the 1300 FPS level yet. And was just wandering if there is a benefit
     
  4. RJ

    RJ TS Member

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    I shot the 1400 FPS many years back. I loaded them into Remington high base and they performed very well from about 10 yards past the 27 yard line. But I don't remember what the load was I used. I know the powder was Blue Dot. But how much? Don't remember. I loaded them on my wifes uncles MEC 600jr.. I just had a very few bars at the time but I had the powder shot and wads. The wads were given to me and I was told by this person to load em for the longshot. Thats about as much as I have on them. Sorry couldn't be more of a help to ya. I did understand that they were even expandible from there but I just kept shootin em at 1400FPS. They did very well considering others were heavier than that. I used #6 shot. I only went to #4's on late upland hunts to where the Phesants and Quail were jumping way ahead of us. Never used #4's in the long shots. I didn't need to waist them because the 6's were breakin em. Shot em through an 870 with a 29" modified choked barrel. I still have that barrel and I use it on handycaps. Most of the time I'm shootin a 28" Modified for the rest of the shoots. I do have a 29" full and it shoots a very tight patern. On windy days I use this one when we shoot the long shots. Both are ribbed barrels. Love em all. I have this same setup for two 1100's I have. (Rich.inAz.orinnameonly)
     
  5. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    For several years I loaded Longhshot with 1 3/8 #4's in Active hulls with fed 12s4 wads and fed 209 primers. It chrono'd at about 1400. The benfits are 1) sever headaches, 2) fatigue 3) flinching, 4) pulling head off of stock as gun goes off. If you want to end up doing all these things, go for it. They do break targets a long way back but it is not worth the benefits to me
     
  6. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    Dave Thurston used to.

    Lots of Herco.



    Regards.......Gerald
     
  7. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Gold, books are written on the subject, but the long and short of it has to do with the energy retained by the shot at the target. For game hunting or for clay target shooting games it can make the difference between a clean kill or breaking the target at a hundred yards or better. As for shot patterns, extremely tight patterns can be achieved with the right combination of components. For regular clay target games like trap or skeet keep doing what you are doing, 1300fps is to much in most cases.

    Robert
     
  8. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Pattern wise.. Use the hardest shot you can get.. tumble shot with extra graphite and a squirt of Tri-flo.... Use a 1/4" felt..undershot wad in your plastic wad..a Federal hull is helpful for extra room.. Drop 1 1/16oz.. the wad will make up the difference in weight.. Use LONG barrels for more complete combustion.. Good luck..
     
  9. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Robert T I shoot at Hill Top in Harrisburg, Ohio, Tri-County Nelsonville, Ohio
    Charlie Pidcocks route 13 Gun Club Chauncy Ohio, Athens County Sportsmans club off Baker Rd Athens Ohio near Fox Lake, Bladensburg and Centerburg, Bucyrus, and Snake Rd to name a few.

    Very good buddy shoots at all of these clubs.

    And a big buddy shoot a couple times a year in Kentucky Wednesday before Thanksgiving every year, this is a big shoot, you have SEVEN chances to win money, calcutta + 6 shoot offs from a designated spot. Have seen the 10 bird shootoffs over $300 each w/o splits.

    I am going to try some #5 shot on my next loading, the 6s do not blow pattern, at 1585 fps. I have tried the 1 1/16th oz of 6s load, very effective.

    Presently using an ACTIV HULL easy to identify it as a shootoff shell.
    I use windjammer wad and 35.4 grs of Longshot 1 1/8th oz 6s Rio Primer.

    Shooting w/ Dave Thurston was the good ole days, he told me Herco is one hell of a powder, just have to get it lit.

    Took Dave to Greenfield for a calcutta and he broke a 50 and bought steaks for us on the way home in the 70s.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  10. SevenMaryThree

    SevenMaryThree Member

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    Tron won't let me try my Longshot loads in his precious 303. He's scared by the big noise they make.
     
  11. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    Wow, interesting loads, (I'm not planing to try and don't recommend but,)did anyone ever duplex shotgun powder loads? Maybe a small ammout of red dot and then Herco or Longshot? AJ
     
  12. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    If your talking about 2-3/4" shells, choke constriction, like an extra full turkey, will give better and more consistent patterns at 1300-1350 fps, than any 2-3/4" shell at 1600 fps. Already tried them, and patterned them. Wayne
     
  13. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Just remember ... those loads are lethal at both ends of the gun!
     
  14. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Tried this, patterned that... Blah Blah Blah blah blah...... Until you have shot patterns at the range you are shooting it means absolutely nothing. You can have a 100% pattern at 35 yards but but that doesn't mean anything at 60 , 70 or 80. I have tried longshot at distance and at velocity. It BLOWS THE PATTERN every time. Anybody who says that it doesn't has never patterned them at a measured 70 yards. If you are going to shoot 100 yard targets why would you pattern at any range less then 65 to 70 yards?

    This is about as far as I have found that you can pattern a 1 1/8 or a 1 1/4 oz load and still get enough of a pattern to count and compare.

    Why do guys shoot long Shot? I will tell you why. Three reasons.....


    #1.... Anything that makes that much noise and kicks that hard must be working really well. A guy shooting 1 1/4 of Long shot through a ported gun next to you is so load that it hurts with ear plugs on and you can feel the concussion with your feet. MUST BE WORKING if it does ALL THAT!!!!!

    #2- The theory of retained energy and big pellets. Now by big these boys normally mean #6's which you can run at 1600 FPS and they still won't have the energy of 5's at 1200 FPS. So that you are gaining energy is out because the faster you shoot them the faster they slow down to a point of course.

    #3.... They think that the amount of lead will be reduced at the extremely long range and that it will help them in being on target. Again, when you crunch it on paper it works out to inches at 85 yards between 1600 and 1200 FPS. BUT......... Since nobody has a pattern at 85 to 100 yards there is a huge matter of plain old luck! It does seem that regardless of what the book says, the Longshot does get there at least a mite bit faster. That being said, IT WILLl have a tiny bit more energy! All that adds up to guys shooting long shot for the hail mary bomb shot and handicapping them selves closer then 60 yards unless they are shell swappers.


    I have shot with some of the best game shooters in this country and I have been a long range water-fowler for more then 30 years. I own a Modern day 8ga magnum that shoots 4oz of shot. I can shoot you a pattern at 85 yards with my 8 ga with #6 shot that a starling can't make it through.

    At 1200FPS and 3 1/2OZ of shot I would win every time I could point it properly because luck would not be a factor. There isn't a modern 12ga load that will pattern at 85 yards a pattern that a clay bird can not slip through. It's is all luck at the super long range.

    That being said.... You have to know where to put the bead in order to be in a position to get lucky. The guys who are winning with Longshot at extreme range fit into this group. If I put my 8ga magnum in the hands of these guys you would see some shit happen! I can tell you that for a fact as I have already seen it done.

    My hot load is either 1 1/8oz of #6's or #5's. Copper plated hard shot with green dot at 22.5 grains in a paper with an old 12c1 wad and an old style federal 209. I can break them as far as anybody else can and have my share of the lucky shots.

    If it worked I would be doing it. I own 2 10 ga magnums and an 8 ga magnum. I know long range and patterns and long range starts at 65 yards and that is where I pattern most 12ga guns. the 10's at 75 and the 8ga mag at 85. If you want to shoot long range you have to pattern at long range. Anything else is just making yourself feel good with no reel proof other then you have seen it work. Well.... we used to have a kid who shot a load at 1100FPS with 6's and he won more then his share of 5th and 6th man shots. He knew where to put the barrel so he could get lucky and as far as I have been able to prove with all my patterning ,that is all it is with Longshot. LUCK because I know it isn't the pattern.


    If you have bothered to read this far I ask you to learn one thing from this... What your gun does at 35 yards in of ZERO indication of what it will do at 60,70 or farther. Common sense says that the best 35 or 40 yard pattern will be the best pattern at longer range.

    It would be nice if it worked that way. IT DOESN"T!! Jeff Westlund
     
  15. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Jeff, I believe the majority of game shooters are aware that there is an element of luck involved in the game. You seem to miss the point, they are trying to maximize the effectiveness of their loads. To quote one of the best game shooters I know, "trust you gun and trust your load," apparently you trust your green dot load.

    What I don't understand is your last statement:
    Common sense says that the best 35 or 40 yard pattern will be the best pattern at longer range.

    It would be nice if it worked that way. IT DOESN"T!!

    Please explain.

    Robert
     
  16. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Loads fall apart differently. Some times a load that shoots pretty good at short range ( 40 yards or less will lose the fast majority of it's pellets in just a few yards. There are certain powder and load combos that won't shoot a 60% pattern at 40 yards and others that will shoot nearly 100% pattern. lot's of factors affect the pattern. the one thing that I have found universally is that lead shot will not handle extreme velocity without blowing the pattern. We can get away with hyper velocity with steel and some of the lead shot alternatives because they are very, very hard and will not deform at velocity.

    I have tried the hardest Lawrence magnum Copper plated shot as well as numerous other brands to see if I could get lead shot to pattern at velocity over 1350 FPS and have never found a load that will do as well as powder going 1350FPS or less. This does not mean that some loads won't do well at 35 to 40 yards at high velocity. That isn't what this is about though! There are many ways to win at the game of long range patterns but speed is not one of them. I shoot steel fast. I seldom shoot lead over 1300 FPS. the biggest reason is that you really can't run lead fast enough to make a smaller pellet act like a bigger pellet. In other words.... No matter how fast i shoot lead 7 1/2's they will never kill or break targets as well as lead #6's. YOu can't run them fast enough to have the energy you need at the range you need lead #6 pellets.

    If you could run small shot fast i would do it. I don't like to shoot my 10ga or my 8ga ( OK I do!) if I could use my 12ga or my 28ga. In order to shoot long range you need energy and pattern density but of the two you need energy the most. without energy you have nothing. In order to get energy you have to shoot bigger pellets. In order to get density you have to shoot a larger payload. There is no substitute for these things. I would far rather a better patterning load and less velocity that still had enough velocity to break the target then more energy but at the expense of the pattern.

    At 100 yards it makes no difference if your load goes 1250 or 1600. if you load it with 5's instead of 6's you will have far better chance as they still have the energy. The 6's do not break the bird consistently.


    To prove this to your self some time do this... This is an easy test. Load up some trap loads with 5's and 6's. Shoot a stack of targets at 100 yards piled up on some fence posts. You will soon see the difference between velocity and energy. Run the 6's as fast as you want and load the 5's at 1200. That is the best way to explain what i am trying to tell you. The charts show the energy levels as being negligible between 1200 and 1600FPS. It's far more easily seen when you use bigger pellets at slower velocity. Once you see that, then it's easier to see why you want as many pellets in the pattern at 65 yards. 65 to 70 yards sorts out all the ho hum loads. Counting holes at 40 yards is work and it means very little. My 8 ga with 4 oz of #5 shot looks like a screen door at 40 yards but that doesn't help my cause because I don't need a screen door load of #6 pellets at 40 yards. I can kill anything i shoot at with 1 1/4 of #6 lead at 40 yards. I can shoot 1 1/8 load of 8's at 40 yards and if I do my part it will break every target that flies. Again,....That doesn't mean anything at longer range. This is why I pattern at the range that is closer to the pellet running out of the needed energy as well as the fact that it makes it clear to see which loads perform and which loads do not perform.

    The guy with a tuned load that can put the barrel in the right spot is a dangerous man indeed. Take that same guy and put a gun in his hands that has not only pellet energy but density and now you have somebody that will win pot shoots on a more consistent basis then some of the other guys. Unless you move up to magnum loads with larger bore size those 100 yard shots remain pure luck other then putting the proper lead on whatever shot is still viable.


    Patterning sucks..... It is the only way to give yourself any kind of advantage though. Jeff
     
  17. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The faster it leaves the muzzle the faster it slows down When it gets to the target at long range there is only a few fps difference between fast loads and very fast loads. The best thing to do is increase the size of the shot. HMB
     
  18. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    In the games where I shoot you nare limited to 12Ga max. 10ga and 8ga guns are not allowed. 3 inch 12ga shells are not allowed. Buffered shells are also not allowed.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  19. 3357

    3357 Member

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    Try the Federal "wingshock" pheasant load, 1 1/4oz (non-buffered) plated 5's at 1500fps.
    Unless you really like alchemy in the reloading room this approach is effective and safe..............works for me.
     
  20. Robb

    Robb Member

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    Tex, I shot with a guy a few times and he always had boomer loads. Asked him one day what his powder was and he said 1500X. He claimed he bought a keg each of 700 and 800X dumped them in a bucket and stirred it up. SCARY.
     
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