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Hard rights - Questions

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by GrandpasArms, Nov 2, 2011.

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  1. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Requesting opinions or facts if you've got them. I'm improving steadily with my Remington 1100 (21, 23, still haven't run them all). It is a 30 inch fixed full ramp rib. I'm blowing about half of the hard rights. I do well on the leads but almost certain I'm stopping too soon. Observers have said that this is probably my case. I break almost all hard lefts, but the pieces are large and that seems to suggest I'm behind or ahead (probably behind).

    I'm thinking of adding some weight to the barrel to make it just a tad more difficult to stop the swing. There is a commercial weight available in 5 ounce, 8 ounce, and 12 ounce sizes (URL posted above). As a test before ordering, I've filled a 12 gauge hull with shot. It weighs about 3 ounces. The thought is to attach it with nylon ties just ahead of the magazine cap.

    Does this seem reasonable or is 3 ounces at that location insignificant?

    This 1100 feels like a part of my body, unlike every other gun I own. I'm not ready to go back to the Citori, BT99, BPS, or Beretta - just yet.

    Larry
     
  2. open choke

    open choke TS Member

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    Hard rights

    I learned this from my coach the other day to use for hard rights & lefts staions 1 & 5 (but my issue is with hard lefts for station 1).

    Check your foot position. I know it sounds weird but try to picture it......if you are at a certain angle and when you move to go for a hard angle target if you aren't loose enough at your pivot points to swing fully to the "kill zone" your body will start to show resistance whivh will slow up your swing and mess with your timing.

    He said do like the skeet shooters do; which is get your stance set and move the gun to the "kill zone" and swing back to your hold point to make sure you don't tighten up when you get to that area where you will actually would take your shot.

    I was smoking the targets after showing this instead of getting a nice 3 piece break like the majority of my rights are

    The way I see it as with adding weight you may mess your timing up for your other shots to try to fix your hard right issue by adding weight.
     
  3. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Larry, I too agree that you are running out of swing on your hard angle targets. Sometime on the lefts as well, your own words. Its real easy when you run out of swing on a hard right to keep moving the gun with our upper body (arms) and come out of the gun. It will appear your right on the target with the end of your barrel, but your eye has moved off the stock to the side in extreme cases of this. Just moveing your eye a l/8 of a inch is all it takes. Try adjusting your stance over abit to try to compensate, or better yet try swing your gun with your lower body more, Use your legs to drive your waist and keep your upper body locked to keep your eye from moving. If you don't move your waist your upper body can only move side to side in a narrow range of movement (this movement becomes less as we age), if you use your legs to drive your waist you can increase your swing movment 2-3 times as much, but you must bend your legs and lean forward to swing like this. Adding more barrel weight will not fix this problem, but it will give you a whole new set of problems that you will have to overcome before you get used to the weight. Good Luck and break em all Jeff
     
  4. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    Phil Kiner offers that most right hand shooters shoot BEHIND hard rights and AHEAD of hard lefts.

    When I did his clinic a few years ago he noted that I was relaxing my cheek off the side of the stock when I was swinging on hard rights; my head was still down, I was just relaxing a little while the butt pad was sliding a little to the right.

    He told me to pull the gun into my shoulder firmly and raise my elbow as high as I could. This locked my head into the stock and I started shooting AHEAD of hard rights.

    Eventually I got used to the idea that if I had a firm eye lock on the target I could pull the trigger as my barrel passed under it and the target would break. If you need leads, he said, you're either stopping the gun, coming out of the gun or swinging too slowly.

    Mike K
     
  5. skeezix

    skeezix Member

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    The one thing skeet will teach you is to swing at the knees - not with your shoulders. Keep your upper body / mount solid and unmoving through the swing. The angles are much more subtle in trap - so you can 'get away with' more form errors - but they will bite you nonetheless. You can practice at home by swinging the gun along the corner between a wall and a ceiling and trying to stay right on the corner.

    I have found, for me, that using the wider weight forward stance I use in skeet is not ideal for trap. I seem to do a bit better at trap if I use a slightly narrower stance, more erect posture, and not quite so much weight on the front foot. You do have to pay attention to your foot position on each pad to make sure you don't run out of swing on a right or left hand target. Also, keep your feet roughly parallel - some folks like to turn their front foot out - which effectively locks up your knee and you can't swing.

    If you can, get someone to lock down a machine so its only throwing hard right targets. Work on your form - with an observer that knows he/she is doing, till you get it right.

    john
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Larry, what your saying is it may be impossible to break angles with an extremely light shotgun OR possibly with a much heavier one also? Some people shoot successfully with either when it comes to breaking clays consistently!

    I suggest it isn't the guns weight at all that's causing you problems! I feel people make a bad upper body move rather than becoming one with their shotgun on moving targets and blame the error on many other things not involved at all! Have a friend video your shooting at a time your not aware of him doing it?? If you can do that, you'll see for yourself exactly what mistakes your making on those angles!! Becoming one with your gun sounds easy for shooting a moving target with a shotgun, it's very tough to master for 100 shots!!

    Hap
     
  7. Jim Bradbury

    Jim Bradbury Member

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    Larry,
    I had the same problem with hard lefts from post # 1. I went to a shooting coach and he had me change my hold point. I was holding at the corner of the trap house. He had me move my hold point to about a foot and a half off of the corner of the trap house. This worked for me. in fact I now hold about two feet off of the corners on post one and five. I was always behing the target. Now I do not have that problem anymore. Hope this helps you.
    Jim Bradbury
     
  8. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Because your only movement should be rotation at the waist, you should rotate your stance accordingly. Station 5 your feet should be on a line at approximatly a 45 degree angle (\) to the trap. That way you will feel like you have plenty of distance to move after the shot without straining to do so. Plus it keeps the gun closer to the cheek, because you do not have to use your arms to keep the swing moving in follow through, because you have reached the restriction point in the rotation. If you are still missing behind, rotate a little more. You will be able to tell how much more natural it feels when the shot is fired and the follow through will be automatic, if you keep the cheek on the gun after the shot. It is better to have a restricted feel, or muscle resistance, to get to the hold point then to feel it when the shot is taken. Plus concentrate on the target like you want to kill it, or are angry at it. Jon
     
  9. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    You may be as you stated stopping the gun on the hard rights, are you a right handed shooter If so you may be pulling the stock away from your face on the hard rights. If your right handed try holding the stock with your elbow even with the top of your ear. That will force the stock to stay on your cheek.
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Fill two 12 guage hulls with shot and crimp them. Then wrap a little duct tap over the crimp for added support. Then put one in the magazine tube in front of the spring. Try it and if you need more weight put the second one in the tube. HMB
     
  11. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Thanks for the guidance. I didn't make any adjustments to the gun. I have noticed a distinct improvement when;

    (a) I adjust my stance a little farther right on 5 and a little farther left on 1.

    (b) I focus on maintaining even, tight pressure on the stock, especially when swinging right

    (c) I try to move more from the legs instead of swiveling from the waist.

    (d) I move my hold point UP (2 to 3 feet above the front edge) on all stations.

    The weather was horrible last night - wind from the north, then the northeast, then east, then northeast. Regardless, I broke 21 during the worst of it and made every hard right. Now, my task is to keep all these pieces straight. Practice....

    Larry
     
  12. craby boy

    craby boy TS Member

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    Larry
    I think you got it already but I find a more turned body position,ie back almost facing station 1 when on 5 feet 45 degrees (RIGHT HAND SHOOTER) this gives me quite a bit more swing to the right, try it

    Pete
     
  13. SMOKEIT

    SMOKEIT Well-Known Member

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    Hard for me to see how holding off the corner for hard rights/lefts helps your score. May help hit the hard angle shots but will cause you to miss some straight away shots...SMOKIT
     
  14. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Holding off the corner on post 5 will result in a less movement and faster shot on the hard rights (less distance to swing). You can also hold a bit higher and not lose the bird under the gun (again less movement).

    Swinging from the waist is not the problem it is the solution; and I wish I was better at it. My problem (and possibly yours) is that I tend to dip my right shoulder and lean over to make the shot on hard rights.

    Like Gene advised, GET A VIDEO of how you shoot. It is very revealing. Even better than a coach telling you you are F'D up.

    Don Verna
     
  15. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Don! It is amazing what a shooter can learn when he sees himself making the same mistake time after time and not know or even realize he's doing it! Even when pointed out from someone behind him that's looking for a miscue in application????

    I did that for a friend at the Grand year before last during a dbls event. Eye opening was his comment!! BTW, I had to video him without him knowing I was even there!!

    Hap
     
  16. miner1

    miner1 Member

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    Oh, don't worry, just about the time you get the angles figured out, you will start missing everything else! Not being negative, just realistic. I went into the spring/summer season SO worried about the right angles and found that if I just stay in the gun and SEE the bird, I hit them. I like to start on station #4 and get all of them out of the way, so I leave #5 with a perfect 10 and feeling pretty good, and then.....yup, start missing the left angles and quarter angles (and straight aways). Trap is such a mental game for me. Keep after them, and when you smoke a few you will be more confident.
     
  17. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Don, If your dipping your shoulders when you shoot a target "You Are Moving Your Upper Body". That's a No No!!! Try moving the legs (waist) more.

    Larry, Remember when you make one adjustment thats really helpful on one type of target, It will often hurt you on the the extreme opposite target (yen/yan). You must find your happy medium for both. Sounds like your on your way. Good Luck and break em all. Jeff
     
  18. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    Larry.... welcome to the club! I can tell you what Nora Ross taught me last June in her clinic on hard rights.... swing through the bird, don't stop, pull the trigger when you cover it. Good luck.

    blade819
     
  19. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Jeff, you dip because you've hit your rotational limits...you need then to open the foot position..
     
  20. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    One tenancy that seems to happen with many beginners is peeking. This almost always stops gun movement.

    Here's an exercise I give to a few of my beginners. Keep your head on the stock and after you shoot follow the target or one of the broken pieces all the way to the ground. If you do this for about a month I can guarantee you won't be coming out of the gun; stopping its movement or peeking to see a break.
    Joe
     
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