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Happy Birthday Stonewall Jackson

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Auctioneer, Jan 21, 2013.

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  1. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    Today is Stonewall Jackson's Birthday. Happy Birthday.
     
  2. beeper

    beeper Member

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    While I laughed at the birthday wishes for RE Lee stating he was a great General, the greatest Confederate Generals were Stonewall Jackson and Longstreet. If Bobby Lee would have listeded to Longstreet at Gettysburg, the Confederacy may have won. Happy BD Stonewall!

    the Beeper
     
  3. cbxchris

    cbxchris Active Member

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    No, if Longstreet had prepared and attacked when told union reinforcements would have no had time to dig in and fortify their positions. The loss of Stonewall lead to the union having the high ground. Making oneself completely aware of history and multiple visits to the site makes one not make stupid comments.

    Happy birthday Gen Jackson. Fearless and at the same time so peculiar to be thought mentally instable at times. None the less a awesome field general with complete dedication from his men.
     
  4. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the dumbocrats back then wanted to ban assault rifles back then??

    One wouldn't think that single shot rifles could inflect so much carnage!!

    They didn't have High capacity clips back then BUT they did have bayonet lugs on them there rifles!!
     
  5. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    barrelbulge_2008_210854.jpg


    This one hangs in my den. Bulge.
     
  6. beeper

    beeper Member

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    cbxchris - Before Lee ordered Picket to make his unsucessful and tactless & fatal charge, Longstreet recommended to Lee to first FLANK the Union (Meade) instead of making the charge. Lee actually took exception to this recommendation and even years after Longstreet never recovered mentally from Lee's rejection and terrible mistake and Longstreet forever held anomosity toward Lee because of it. Lee ordered and waited for Jeb Stuart to attack the flank which never happened because Stuart was getting his ass kicked by Gen. Armstrong Custer at Hanover with the 4th, 5th and 7th (brigade nos. may be incorrect) Michigan Brigades. Therefore jeb didn't show until the end.

    To insinuate that because of multiple vistis to Gettysburg may make one not to make stupid comments ( I think that is what you intended) then I guess since I visited Gettysburg at least 3 times and have maybe 100 Civil War History books in my collection.... I may be right with my prose above. Maybe we can get another Civil War Historian here involved? Still... General Jackson was the best General that Lee had. Who knows what would have happened if he lived or Jeb Stuart would have shown up at Gettysburg.

    the Beeper
     
  7. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I would agree that Lee was the greatest General but if he would have been a little more decisive on his order 'if practicable' the South would have had the high ground. Despite discretionary orders from Robert E. Lee to take the heights "if practicable," Richard Ewell chose not to attack. Historians have debated ever since how the battle might have ended differently if he had found it practicable to do so.[51]

    Bulge.
     
  8. cbxchris

    cbxchris Active Member

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    I had a grandfather at Gettysburg. Although not a scholar I am completely aware of what went on and why. Never kept count of my visits. Once for 5 days. Longstreet deserved the hate that followed him for the rest of his life. He simply failed to follow orders and do as he was told when he was told. That also does not excuse his whining and lackluster attempt at those orders. The fight was lost on day one but it could have been turned with competence by Longstreet and Pickett.
     
  9. beeper

    beeper Member

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    The Civil War and in particular Gettysburg have many stories, each being unique in their own particular way. It's easy to look back and judge, and mis-judge, actions by it's Commanders and put "what if's" on it. For certain though is the carnage that it created but also the nation that it created. We, both Southerners and Yankees, should never forget our history during 1861-1865. It's a shame that our youngsters and schools seem to have done exactly that.

    the Beeper
     
  10. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    A little story about the triangular field just above Devils Den. My wife and I would take 4 or 5 day vacations there and on one of our trips we were at the top of the triangular field, The breeze was coming uphill, I was at the top, and she was about 20 feet below me. All of a sudden she turns around and asks me if I passed gas. I told her that the wind was blowing uphill not downhill towards her (Of course she insisted I did).

    I asked her what the odor was like and she stated it smelled like rotten eggs. For those of you that do not know the field has a reputation of giving people a glimpse of the past in various ways. The odor she was smelling was sulphur. It's an uncommon occurance but it does occassionally happen.

    The battlefield gives up a lot of its secrets in that fashion. We have had numerous experiences that defy current logic. Mike.
     
  11. wayno

    wayno TS Member

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    obviously some very well educated civil war students around this place, and a pleasure to consider your arguments.

    if i might pitch in about the loss of gettysburg: lee was a general whose plans depended on the immediate, confident execution of the scheme. when they were promptly carried out (hood at gaine's mill, longstreet at second manassas, at various random occasions at antietam, by jackson at chancellorsville, by the left flank on the first day at g'burg, in the peach orchard on the second day), they were invariably overwhelming. however, if *for whatever reason* they were delayed, or carried out with something less than the highest degree of courage of arms, they were usually ineffective, or worse.

    the latter was the case in the majority of executive actions by the corps leaders at g'burg. ewell was a total failure; powell hill was sick, and lacked command presence; and longstreet simply pouted his way to the beginning of the collapse of the confederate cause.

    but, in the end, it was lee's belief that those boys he lead could do the superhuman is what cost him that battle, and has flawed his fame throughout most of 20th century military criticism.
     
  12. beeper

    beeper Member

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    wayno.... I appreciate your comments along with Mike's. One only has to stand next to the monument of Pickett and look down at the field that thousands of Confederates walked in a line over one mile long to their certain death to understand that it was a suicide charge. I'm not a wartime tactical genius, however if I received orders like that while serving in Viet Nam, I believe they would have court martialed me. If Lee refused to swallow his pride and either withdrawn after Stuart didn't show, or if he would have followed Longstreets advice to flank, who knows what might have happened. On the other side, if Meade & Buford would have attacked the retreating Confederates as they withdrew from Gettysburg, the war may have ended 1 1/2 years earlier. Who knows?

    the Beeper
     
  13. cbxchris

    cbxchris Active Member

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    Beeper never forget the cannon barrage that Lee assumed was on target and decimated the union front line. Of course it was long and most fell behind the front lines. As was mentioned Lee's plan required precision both in time and following his orders to the tenth degree. If his orders had been carried through competently I might not have a POS for my president today.
     
  14. wayno

    wayno TS Member

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    really, chris, why the hell do you have to interject political bullshit into an otherwise interesting and cordial thread? it's that kind of approach that makes alex jones such a wonderful poster boy for those of us who love firearms.
     
  15. cbxchris

    cbxchris Active Member

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    Wayno. Because fact is not accepted by people of your political leanings I can understand your need to feel I do not have the right to voice a opinion. In other words.......I never asked you to accept my opinion nor care if you ever do.
     
  16. wayno

    wayno TS Member

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    what does your opinion of pres obama have to do in any possible way with our discussion of the tactics at gettysburg?

    if you can't give a rational response to that question, and you can't, then either deal with the subject of the thread or stfu.
     
  17. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Wayno, no need to take offense he is merely stating that if the South would have won it would be very likely the we would not have a black President. I happen to agree with him that O is a POS. Bulge.

    If I didn't buy a house in Fl. Gettysburg was our second choice. One of the nicest town I have been in. Now lets get back to the Civil War.
     
  18. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    2013 is the 150th anniversary of Gettysburg, so I'm sure as we get closer to the date we will see further discussion. We've all got 5 months to read up on the subject, to liven the discussion. LOL I just hope the foul mouth, ill mannered Yankees on this site, will show some decorum.

    Having been on Cemetery Ridge, my conclusion is - Yankee artillery carried the day. Pickett's Rebs almost made it.

    The majority of the discussion of early July 1863 centers on Gettysburg, but we must remember that Vicksburg surrendered to Grant on July 4, 1863. The taking of the Gibraltar of the Mississippi, led to the final squeezing by Winfield Scott's Anaconda.
     
  19. cbxchris

    cbxchris Active Member

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    Wayno, STFU huh? As with many people who hide behind a computer its best you never attempt that face to face.

    My comment was directed to the fact if the south had won I would not be sitting here with the POS president you voted for. If you can;t stand public comment about what you support I suggest moveon.org or the like. No one will miss you.
     
  20. wayno

    wayno TS Member

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    that comment of yours was grounded in racism, and had nothing to do with civilized political interaction.

    and, beyond that, it appeared, suddenly, in a discussion in which the question of who might be president more than 150 years after the battle under analysis was totally irrelevant, and indefensible by reasonable participants in a study of civil war tactics. it was, purely and simply, rude; and i will not run from confronting that sort of rudeness in a public forum, or anywhere else.
     
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