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Hang Fire = Lost Target??

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by pyrdek, Aug 29, 2008.

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  1. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    We had a situation last night in our League shoot and could not find a definitive rule in the book to cover it. Sooooo......

    A shooter called for a target (16 yd) and the target appeared, intact and on time and flew within the normal limits. The shooter pulled the trigger when trying to hit the target. The gun did not fire AT THAT TIME. The shooter started to move the gun from his shoulder. While the target was still in the air with the gun slightly lowered from his shoulder, the shooter's gun fired. (It was still pointed down range and no safety incident occurred.)

    There was a very perceptible delay in the time the gun fired from when he pulled the trigger. The target was still in the air when the gun fired. The target hit the ground intact. This was not a fail to fire since the shot and wad did leave the barrel in, other than for the delay, the normal manner. We looked through the rule book and saw nothing definitive bout this particular situation. The ruling was made that it was a lost target because a legal target was in the air while the gun fired and the target was not broken.

    Has this situation ever been covered somewhere in the rules?
     
  2. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    It's a lost target as you ruled since a legal target was in the air when the gun discharged. Bad luck for the shooter.
     
  3. SPORTALLURING

    SPORTALLURING Active Member

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    In Tournament Trap if the gun goes off and the target has been called for (released) in the air, it would be a lost target. SPORTALLURING
     
  4. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    You got the call right!

    Hauxfan!
     
  5. H82MIS

    H82MIS TS Member

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    Just bad luck,,,,,,and lost,,
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    The call is easy. What caused the delay is more important in my mind. Over the years I've had that with a model 12, I've forgotten the fix, but it required a gunsmith. Also with a K80 which was a broken spring, old type, not coil. Goog luck, Bob
     
  7. slugbug1

    slugbug1 Member

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    I think you can make a case to shoot it again. Rule book says C. LOST TARGET...The referee/scorer shall rule lost (2) when a whole target appears promptly after a contestant's recognizable command and is within the legal limits of flight and the contestant VOLUNTARILY does not fire;

    D. FAILURE TO FIRE...1...A contestant shall be allowed two failures to fire in singles and handicap events, FOR ANY REASON OTHER THAN STATED IN PARAGRAPH C.2.

    I say shoot it again. Gary L.
     
  8. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Lost target. Same thing if it had been a squibb and the wad left the barrel. The shooter did voluntarily fire the shot.
     
  9. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    I left early last night before this happened, but already heard about this this morning before reading about it here. The correct call was made, the target was lost.

    ~Michael
     
  10. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    Good test for followthrough eh?

    Did he flinch too?

    Remington Roulette or ball and dummy routine

    always good for laughs too
     
  11. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    No question as to the call. THe one made is correct.
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Correct ruling was made according to the ATA rule book. But, this incident happened at a League shoot, not an ATA shoot. The League may, or may not elect to follow ATA rules.

    I have seen this happen a few times at ATA events, including a shoot off for a state championship. It is occasionally possible for a release trigger to hang for a short time. It is an unfortunate way to lose a target.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    This was an Erie-Crawford Trap League shoot but our League rules list that all ATA rules are to be followed unless they are in conflict by what is specifically listed in our League rules. This particular situation was definitely not covered in our League rules.

    In case anyone is interested, our rules are available at:
    http://users.edinboro.edu/pyrdek/adobe/rules-2008.pdf

    (If you do take a look, the numbers in the parentheses following the rule are the month and year the rule was adopted or last changed.)
     
  14. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    How much time must elapse between pulling or releasing the trigger and the shell detonating for this to be considered a failure to fire. HMB
     
  15. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    AFTER the target hits the turf it is a ftf. This is a tough call for a score keeper as he is usually looking at the shooter, not the airborne target.
     
  16. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    The trigger was intentionally pulled, (or released) the gun subsequently discharged while a target was in the air...

    Lost bird.....
     
  17. sammyd95

    sammyd95 TS Member

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    as long as the wad clears the barrel its a shot fired,Lost Bird
     
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