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Handicap: Women @ 19, Men @ 20 - Why?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by JAF1680, Jan 26, 2011.

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  1. JAF1680

    JAF1680 TS Member

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    I started shooting trap about a year ago and just started shooting handicap recently. I was just wondering why women start a yard ahead of men. What is the logic behind the one yard difference? Just curious, not complaining.
     
  2. bridgetoofar

    bridgetoofar TS Member

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    Because they shoot like girls.
     
  3. neofight

    neofight TS Member

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    It's the Betty Furness implied law of physical properties as regards the differential proportion of body mass to shot weight.The lighter a shooter, the more perceived recoil that lilliputian shooter would experience, causing a minimal, but measurable reduction in velocity of the shot string, thus placing the miniature person at a distinct disadvantage over her larger and often-times clumsy, rotund opponent.

    I could be wrong here.: )
     
  4. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Just a small concession to women & jrs. because most of them are smaller, & may not have the upper body strength of men, remember if they (you) shoot well they (you) don't stay there. There are women on the 27 that make me look like a beginner. Ross Puls
     
  5. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    because our counter-weights are closer to the ground..hence..lower center of gravity
     
  6. Butler

    Butler TS Member

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    I believe the original intention was to get women and juniors to enter the shooting game and the thought that the 1 yard less would encourage them to shoot more handicap targets, correct me if I am wrong......Jim
     
  7. JAF1680

    JAF1680 TS Member

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    neofight: That is a superb explanation. :)

    Hellcat: I admit my initial impression did follow your logic (i.e. I was initially a little offended). However, my initial feeling changed to curiosity. Do women on average shoot lighter loads and hence a yard equates for that? I thought there might be a logical explanation. A yard really doesn't seem to make much difference.
     
  8. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Neoflight, I've done some calculation and I think you're right. But to be absolutely certain, we have to factor in the size of the counterweights and if they are made of brass or not.

    Thanks, Cal, for pointing that out.
     
  9. JAF1680

    JAF1680 TS Member

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    In that case, maybe we should move everyone over 60 forward two yards since they have worse eye sight or at least that is what they claim if I beat them. Lol.
     
  10. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    The only, I repeat, ONLY, plausible reason I can think of is to attract more women shooters to this game, and get them to shoot more handicap.

    Same goes for having a "Lady" winner for each event.

    If men and women were truly competing on an level basis, there would be no concession whatsoever for lady shooters starting at a shorter yardage for handicap, nor would there be a special class for ladies.

    I really believe its to attract more women to the game, and has nothing to do with their physical stature or their ability to withstand recoil.
     
  11. shadow

    shadow Active Member

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    My apologies to the LADIES !!! I just have to say this-- Because most of guys rather enjoy looking at the backside.
     
  12. JAF1680

    JAF1680 TS Member

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    I must say I am thoroughly enjoying all the explanations. I still think it is a bit silly, but if it actually encourages more women to take up the sport, it is worth it. There are far too few of us.
     
  13. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    I knew this thread would be a good read!
     
  14. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Chivalry
     
  15. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    Simple,to level the playing field. Clyde D.
     
  16. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Hellcat,

    That's not what I said at all. Please re-read my post.

    Women are quite capable of, and do, compete on a level playing field with men. I have shot on the same squad as Rachel Hopkins on several occasions, and if I recall correctly, she kicked my back-side each and every time.

    But the fact that the ATA starts women at 19 and the fact that there is a special "lady" category means that they get special consideration that men don't get.

    Think about it.

    There is no "high man" champion category.

    In any given competition, there is a "high lady" champion in addition to all the other champions. The only time men are given such special consideration are when we are very young (junior, sub-junior), very old (vet, senior-vet), or if we shoot in a wheelchair, and even those categories ALSO apply to women.

    Any woman, regardless of age or other circumstance, if they're the only woman competing in the event, will win a prize even if they shoot the lowest score posted. The reverse is not true. If I'm the only man shooting in an event where all the other competitors are women (and none of the other special categories applies to me), and I post the lowest score I will NOT win a prize. That's a fact.

    Stated differently, there is one prize awarded at nearly all ATA events that men are excluded from winning, solely on the basis of gender.

    Same is true for starting handicap yardage.

    I'm completely indifferent to this fact. But it is what it is. If it attracts more women to the game, great.
     
  17. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    I understand that now men can shoot poorly enough to receive a yardage reduction down to 19... is that also correct?!

    If you're a lady, tween, teen or older fart you get special consideration... heck this is "American" Trap after all!

    regards,

    Jay
     
  18. neofight

    neofight TS Member

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    Paul, as the famous Scottish piano tuner, Leon Opporknockity once said to a complaining customer:" Opporknockity only tunes once".
     
  19. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    I've enjoyed reading this thread,I wasn't going to respond to it,but,what the hay,,the snow's got me cabin fevered so here goes.First,I've only been shooting a year,(59yrs old),You know how hard it is teaching an Ol' dog new tricks,,so naturally a youngster or young lady on the 19 doesn't seem fair to me starting on the 20,,or that older gentleman being a vet or senior vet that's been shooting forever on the 19 either.I have the most respect for women that shoot,,just yesterday an elderly lady in her 80's I believe, broke a 47 out of 50,sure did better than me,and shes back several yards behind me on handicap.But I smile and bear it,and remind everyone,I'm a rare one,,I shoot for fun and enjoy it and if I do good,that's just a plus.As one fella said to me yesrerday..The shame is too many focus on the competition and miss out on the fun.I had to agree 100% with him.I leave the competition with my Bass fishing,One sport for competition is enough for me.

    Doug H.
     
  20. dshot

    dshot Member

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    Shadow Nailed it.
     
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