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Handicap shot size

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by code5coupe, Nov 28, 2007.

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  1. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    While, there is no "best choice", that is a GOOD choice.
    If you put that load (commonly known as a handicap load) on the bird, the bird will break.
    Why the doubt? Did someone tell you it wasn't sufficient for long yardage?
     
  2. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    You can shoot a slower load of 7 1/2 and it will get to the target just as fast. A 2 3/4 dram load of #7 1/2 gets to the target in about the same time as a 3 dram load of #8. Still, all things considered the difference between 1150 and 1250 speed in trap shooting doesn't make any difference to the shooter except maybe recoil.

    jim brown
     
  3. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    another factor is the air temperature, if it is cold out below 40 degrees I would use 7 1/2s. # 8s from the 27 yd line works well I know of quite a few long yardage shooters that use 8s.

    I also know all americans that use 2 3/4 dram shells from the 27 yd also.

    What it comes down to is your personal preference.

    Dr.longshot
     
  4. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Jim is approximately correct. Time of flight to 40 yards is as follows (for an IM choke):

    #8 @1150fps- 0.1496 seconds

    #8 @1200fps- 0.1452

    #7' @1150fps- 0.1469

    #7' @1200fps- 0.1425


    Now before anyone says you can't see that little difference, I'll say the difference is speed to target is quite evident between 1150fps and 1200fps.

    A better metric is retained energy. #8 launched at 1150fps drops to 0.6 ft/lb of energy @50.5yds. #7' at the same speed is good to 59yds @ 0.6 ft/lb.

    Since a 50 yard shot is considered slow shooting from the 27 yard line, and 0.6ft/lb is way more than needed to break a clay target, a handicap load of light 8sis all that is required. That being said, I prefer 1200fps loads for handicap. I also use Nitro 27s @1235fps. They don't seem to work any better and they hurt more.

    So the best choice for handicaps is a load between 1145fps and 1235fps, because they pattern better than 1290fps loads. #8s have enough energy to break targets and you get a lot more pellets, which increases your chances of a hit. If your mind is messing with you and you "know" you need #7's, then use them. If you "know" you need 1290fps, go ahead (ouch). It's your shoulder.
     
  5. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    gslam


    I have a friend I shoot with who reloads 15.5 grains of 700x and 1 1/8 ounce of 8s.


    He has broken 8 100s from the 27 so based on his results I don't think you necessary need a lot of velocity to break good scores from the back fence.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  6. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Can anyone think of anything other reason why we can,t shoot ? My God just hit the target It don,t care if your useing frozen pea,s .

    Shot size makes little differnce if you don,t hit the target .
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    What brand of peas do you use. HMB
     
  8. rooferbob

    rooferbob Active Member

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    Gotta be Green Giant!
     
  9. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Maybe 7.5's or 8's. Naw, shoot 8.5's, and by the way 9's work great, too. But then if you can get away with it 6's work in 3/4's loads. Or, it could be 1 1/8 oz. in 8.5's or maybe 1 oz. of 7.5's. No way only 8's in 7/8's. Gee, decisions, decisions, decisions.
     
  10. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    zzt said:
    #8 @1150fps- 0.1496 seconds

    #8 @1200fps- 0.1452

    #7' @1150fps- 0.1469

    #7' @1200fps- 0.1425

    Someone check my calculations. Over 40 yards, I used a straight-line decrease in speed (which I know is not quite right, but my calculus is rusty) for the above loads and speeds. The average speed to target at 40 yards for #8 @1150fps is 802.139 fps. The terminal velocity would have to be 454.28 fps. For #8 @1200fps, the average speed is 826.446 fps and the terminal velocity would have to be 452.89 fps.

    For the 7- @1150 fps, average is 816.882 fps and terminal velocity 483.76 fps. For the 7- @1200 fps, average is 842.105 fps and terminal is 484.21 fps.

    Based on these numbers, drag has a greater impact on the shoot than initial velocity. The additional 50 fps at muzzle doesn't push the shot hard enough to make up for the velocity and energy loss of the smaller shot size.

    I'd like to see the times to target for very fast, lighter loads of #8 and #7-.

    Based on the above numbers, one should shoot 7 1/2s and not 8s.

    Danny
     
  11. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    OK, same parameters as before.

    #8 @1300fps- 0.1373 TOF to 40 yards. Retained Energy- 0.6ft/lb @53.5yds

    #7' @1300fps- 0.1347. RE 64yds

    #8 @1500fps- 0.1241. RE 60yds

    #7' @1500fps- 0.1216. RE 69.5yds.

    I think retained energy is a better metric for target breakability than velocity at time of impact is.
     
  12. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

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    Again, under my methodology above:

    Terminal velocity at 40 yards is 448 for the #8s and 481 for the #7-s. That's probably a pretty close indicator of retained energy.

    It would be interesting to compare a 1 1/8 oz. load of 7-s to 7/8 of 7-s, with the same powder charge. The best I can determine on the Hodgdon site, 18.4 grains of Clay pushes the 1 1/8 load at 1200 fps and 18.2 grains pushes the 7/8 oz load at 1300. I'd almost bet the 7/8 load would have as much or more retained energy at 40 yards, if you could measure the energy over a small surface, say the size of a clay bird.

    Danny
     
  13. E. Beaver

    E. Beaver Member

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    gslam:

    As most all guns, chokes, and loads pattern differently it is best if you pattern yours at the yardage of interest.

    Count the pellet holes on a paper target within a 24 inch circle in the center of your pattern and note any blank spaces big enough for a target to avoid being hit.

    I have found that I had about as many pellet holes from the 7 1/2 loads as I did 8's at 40 and 45 yards. And they were fewer open target size spaces. Further on very cold, damp or windy days 7 1/2 may perform better. So, for me 7 1/2's are my first choices at these yardages.

    The highly skilled can place the hot center core of a pattern on the clay target and break it. For them pellet size matters less.
     
  14. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    Danny, I think if you check some ballistic tables you will find the velocity at target breaking range is in the 600+ fps range.





    Jim
     
  15. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    Here ya go. Jim
     
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