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Handicap..Higher POI?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dove Commander, Apr 6, 2007.

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  1. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    Had a small argument today, so I promised to put it on TS.com

    When you shoot handicap, Do you raise your point of impact, or leave at your 16 yd. setting and....what yardage do you shoot? Mike, I'll bet you owe me a beer!

    Let r' rip.
     
  2. grammie

    grammie TS Member

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    It all depends of how fast you shoot!!!

    Example,,,,Do you ride the targets??? If so,,a higher POI will get you nothing but LOST!!! A 70/30,,80/20 POI will do you well in this case!!!

    And reverse??? If you try and shoot real fast,,,,Pull---Bang!! Then you will shoot under the targets with a 70/30 setting!! In that case a higher POI will be needed!!!

    Myself??? 27yds...I am a "see it,,shoot it" shooter,,,I hold a high gun at handicap,,and even higher at singles and doubles....I wait till it appears above my gun,,,bang!!

    AKA Grammie......
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Many very good shooters recommend raising the comb a little for handicap. This will raise the POI. I prefer to hold a lower gun (a foot or so below the top of the house). This increases the speed of my swing and the momentum of the moving gun results in a higher POI. The lower gun mount on handicap also results in shooting the bird faster, at least when I do it.

    I do not raise my comb because I am sure I would forget to lower it for singles and doubles. Changing the comb height between singles and handicap requires a shooter with a much better memory than I have.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    One thing for certain, you'll tweak the gun a little till you shoot that big score, then you'll tweak it a little more and eventually you'll play hell trying to get it back to where it was when you shot that big score!!

    I think Irish is on to something about K.I.S.S.
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You raise the POI inorder to deal with the effects of gravity. HMB
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    HMB, a 3-dram 7 1/2 drops two inches in 34 yards and 3 inches in 40 yards. Should people change their comb of make up for an inch? And in most cases, won't the rise of the shot over that distance cancel it out anyway?

    Neil
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Neil - I appreciate your explanation but I am not certain that the affects of gravity are constant. Sometimes early in the morning when I get out of bed I am convinced that gravity is much more powerful at that time than it is later in the day.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. mastergunner

    mastergunner TS Member

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    Hey I like the gravity comment and getting out of bed. Gravity seems to be getting stronger over the years. If it gets much stronger I won't be able to move in the next couple of years.
     
  9. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Good points by all so far. Shot drop at 40 yards, and the tendancy to "float the target" may requires this? If you float the target, what is the "gap" of the float at 32 yds (ave. 16yd break point) and what is the "gap" at 40 yds? Is that gap at 40 yds proportionally much greater? Visually greater? 4-6" at the 40 yds? More? I find I have to add a shim and lower my rib (K-80) some at 27yds because I visually float the bird more. The target is smaller and my bead appears bigger. The "gap" grows, and is difficult to maintain.
     
  10. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    This cannot be based on one theory as what works for one may not another!

    Leo, Bony, Kay all do it different in POI setup. grammie is not that far off with his comments in my view.

    At the 27, things that are important are "target recognition", "gun placement" (ie hold point), "gun fit", "your ability to stay in the gun till shot is delivered", then worry about POI. Most non proficient 27 yd shooters have poor "most_of_the_above".

    The 1145 fps/1200 fps/1250 fps makes little difference for most!

    Pat Ireland, try staying in bed longer and in relation to your problem, hopefully this will reduce the effects :-}

    Now will all the above said, I'm nobody and without any abilities and the only thing I would put "stock_in" would be the comment related to "Pat".
     
  11. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Gravity is least about late morning/early afternoon, gets stronger again in late evening--------so I go back to bed. Must be something about the comparative effect of gravitational influence of the Sun vs the Moon?

    John C. Saubak
     
  12. Charles L. Schmidt

    Charles L. Schmidt TS Member

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    There are lots of factors involved in the answer, and personal preference plays a big part. There are certain fundamentals that apply, but different shooters see the targets differently and react differently than others. Psycho-motor skills are different from shooter to shooter. I’ve known this for a long time, but Neil’s recent comparison of Trapshooting to the penguin game made it all very clear for me.

    With that said… I’ve always stuck with the attitude,

    DON’T CHANGE NOTHIN’!

    Change is bad…

    But I do know there are great shooters out there advocating raising the comb when moving from the 16 to long yardage. They do it and it obviously works great for them. (400X400XTWO! – amazing). But just know that they have shot so much and are so familiar with what it takes to hit any target, that this works very well for them. These are guys who can pick up anyone’s gun, and with a practice shot or two can run straights with it. My only point is that moving the comb around may not be for the average A or even AA shooter whose made their way back to long yardage.

    With that said, I personally shoot quite fast and prefer a high shooting gun. The very bottom of the pattern is a couple inches above the aiming point. Why? Because I like it that way. When I step up to the 16 yard line the hard angles take some discipline to stay under, but again, I like it that way. cls
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Chuck, I feel the reason PK does that is to have the same "look" vertically at the bird and bead relationship from both yardages. At least that's what I see shooting 9 inches high at 16s and 15 inches at 27. Works for some I guess. Shooters riding a bird to peak can do just fine with 60/40-70/30 etc.

    Raising the comb for longer distance shooting takes less birds shot to get the hang of hitting birds too. Setting the POI and hammering away does take a lot of shooting to master the differences in my opinion. Hap
     
  14. Charles L. Schmidt

    Charles L. Schmidt TS Member

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    Understood Hap... But another concern that I have with raising and lower the comb for different yardages is the fact that the comb is usually tapered from bottom to top. Which to me means that when you lower it, you are also increasing the cast off, however slight. I guess there is the assumption that your face simply moves up and down right along with it keeping the cast constant. Meaning your neck is just bent slightly more or less. I don't believe precise gun fitting works that way.

    But really the biggest reason I never tried it is because I've always used a PFS. And they're really not designed to make this type of frequent change. cls
     
  15. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Neil,

    I did not realize that the rise of shot can cancel the effects of gravity. Is that one of Winston's Laws of Physics. HMB
     
  16. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Shot doesn't rise, it begins falling and spreading the instant it clears the barrel. Hap
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Hmb, Hap - well Hap I expected better of you. HMB just doesn't know better. I suggest both of you reconsider your posts.

    HMB, You did. When I wrote:

    "HMB, a 3-dram 7 1/2 drops two inches in 34 yards and 3 inches in 40 yards. Should people change their comb of make up for an inch? And in most cases, won't the rise of the shot over that distance cancel it out anyway?

    Neil"

    I was not just arguing against your ridiculous idea that you raise the comb to account for shot fall, but pointing out that since most trap guns shoot at least a little high, the shot is higher at 40 yards than it is at 34 yards, or at least no lower at all. aat will supply the numbers.

    Hap, point the gun straight up and tell me it roesn't rise.

    Neil
     
  18. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    i believe grimmie is correct. i tend to be a quick shooter. my scores improved everytime i raise my poi. i will keep it high this season. about 100% high
     
  19. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Neil,

    Are you saying the comb does not need to be raised for 27 yard shooting??
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying nothing of the kind, Paladin. If people raise the comb it's to account for time, not gravity, that all.

    Neil
     
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