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Handicap Facts

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Setterman, Feb 9, 2012.

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  1. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I am as tired of this Handicap controvesy as everyone else. So I thought I would visit the RJStuart website and track the winners on 3-4 shoots:

    Dixie Grand Handicap winners:

    Bruce Meyers 25.5 yds

    Leo Harrison 27 yds

    Bumsted 27 yds

    Barb Hermes 24 yds

    William Boldt 22 yds

    Dale Gerlich 26.5 yds

    Hall of Fame:

    Thomas Mann 20 yards

    Ohio State Shoot:

    Tom Mygrant 25 yards

    Jim Greulich 24.5 yards

    Eric Frysinger 19 yards

    Harold Holmer 20 yards (Good shoot'n Harold...100 straight)

    PA Grand:

    Bradley Heath 27 yards

    Bethany Breighner 21 yards

    James Youd Jr. 22 yards

    Of 14 handicaps, 3 were won by 27 yarders, 11 were won by other yardages. I did not cherry pick the shoots. RJ Stuart does not have many western shoots, so they're not available.

    The Dixie was shot after the 2 yard reductions, and there were a number of big dogs there because it's winter time and it's a fairly big shoot, but the 27 yarders only won 2 of the 5 handicaps.

    Maybe we should take those 2 yards back? Would 30 yards of concrete changed the ratio? Is the 27 yard dominance a "Western thing" because of the weather?

    I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick and tired of getting beat by short yardage shooters!
     
  2. Robb

    Robb Member

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    With those 11 shooters winning from short yardage the obvious thing to do is move them forward 2 yds. Maybe there will be a day that a reduction is part of the trophy.

    I do know Holmer and that score is legit.
     
  3. Shawn

    Shawn Member

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    Larry Bumsted won event 8 with a 99 from the 25.5 yard line.

    I don't think he won anything from the 27. You may want to check some of the others as well they look to be their yardage after the win.

    Shawn
     
  4. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I assumed he was still on the 27. He and Leo were the only 2 I didn't check.

    Well he's back on the 27 now!
     
  5. Michael Wascom

    Michael Wascom Member

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    Changing the rules so that you have a....short....mid....long range winner would make it fair for all involved.

    It would mean that monies won would be less in each class but it's better than no money at all.
     
  6. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick and tired of getting beat by short yardage shooters!"

    Maybe this will help you see what is in every shoot every year. The 27 yard payouts not wins but total yardage paid out to all shooters for this years Dixie Grand.

    Dixie Grand 2012

    27 yard shooters got 14 yardage payout for all handicap events = 12.5 Yds

    26 yard shooters got 4 yardage payout for all handicap events = 2.5 Yds

    25 yard shooters got 12 yardage payout for all handicap events = 10 Yds

    24 yard shooters got 4 yardage payout for all handicap events = 3 Yds

    23 yard shooters got 3 yardage payout for all handicap events = 2.5 Yds

    22 yard shooters got 4 yardage payout for all handicap events = 3.5 Yds

    21 yard shooters got 4 yardage payout for all handicap events = 3.5 Yds

    20 yard shooters got 3 yardage payout for all handicap events = 3 Yds

    19 yard shooters got 0 yardage payout for all handicap events = 0 Yds

    18 yard shooters got 4 yardage payout for all handicap events = 2.5 Yds

    Now which yardage group got the most yards at the Dixie Grand?????

    Well Gee it sure looks like the 27 yard group!!!!!! Guess what SM you pick the shoot and you will find the same results. I didn't have time to do the 2010 shoots but I did the 2009 shoots and they are worse there were more 27 yard payout than this past year 2011.

    Bob Lawless
     
  7. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Bob, Did you ever think that maybe there was a high percentage of 27 yarders at the shoot.

    Regardless, it doesn't matter, winners are winners and facts are facts.

    Last year at the Autumn Grand 1/2 of the shooters were 27 yarders, only 1/2 of them broke a score over 90.
     
  8. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    So the griping is still about winning money right?
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Let me see 461 shooters at the Autumn Grand and 230 of them were 27yd shooters.

    Yet you don't see a problem at 27. There isn't a bottle neck there either I suppose. Just remember you pick a shoot and I will tell you what yardage group had the most yardage payouts.

    There are none so blind as those that won't see.

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    "a high percentage of 27 yarders at the shoot" traveling to hit all the big shoots would have a tendency to produce that results. I too was hung up on the 27, good enough to stay there, but not good enough to win. On good days when I did break a 97-98 somebody always found a way to break the 100
     
  11. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    But But But that is not fair! We have to make it all so very equal, I mean why should the best shooter win on any given day. That would almost be like natural selection and we cannot have that.

    CM
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Well Munchy tell us when the 27yd shooters at the bigger shoots can't beat the big scores. Just how do you expect the lowly under achieving 18 through 22yd shooters to ever beat the big scores.

    I say it this way because that seems to be all you people seem to understand,who wins and who loses. All I want is equal payouts that means everyone moving for a winning or qualifying score and that can't be accomplished without more concrete.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. Claymuncher

    Claymuncher Member

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    Practice and hard work.

    CM
     
  14. trapshooteraa27aa

    trapshooteraa27aa Well-Known Member

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    Tisk...tisk...tisk oh no setterman you really done it now. Got Bobby (king of copy and paste) in a hissy fit. Hope he gets over it maybe his buddy olliepup will help get his panties unstuck. Wonder how their new concrete business is going?? Bobbies & Ollies Concrete. I hear the truck hasnt moved.
    Chris
     
  15. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    If you're not smart enough to understand this refrain from comment. Leo is one of the better shooters of our lifetime. Last year my singles average was about one % point higher than Leo's handicap average. If shooters like me could shoot the handicap events at 16 yards we would have an advantage and could win a shoot every now and then. I'm sure the out cry would be loud and long to move those under-handicapped shooters back. So why is there no out cry to move the under-handicapped 27 yarders back? Sean Hawley & Leo both average 8% more from the 27 than I averaged at my mix of 26.5 & 27 yard targets last year. And with my "H" code I can't go front of 26.5 for two years. It's very simple and just requires a little COMMON SENSE. For the handicap system to work, the way it is designed to, either move them back or move the average shooter front. And, if an average shooter wins something don't penalize them for several years.
     
  16. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    Forgot to add my conclusion.

    Conclusion: No additional concrete needed. We just need the rule makers to let us all shoot from a yardage than we can average above 95% from.

    EE Bornman
     
  17. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    It's not about the money for me. I work 50 or so hours a week for money and shoot for fun.
     
  18. claykiller

    claykiller Member

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    I have a novel idea for everybody's handicap yardage woes, shoot better. That way you wont have to worry about loosing to short yardage shooters.
     
  19. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    So eb, What about the number of birds shot, and the practice rounds? Someone who shoots 500 birds a year on the 20 yard line and never practices should be able to break a 95?

    We expect that guy to compete with someone who shoots 100 practice targets a week to get better?
     
  20. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    <i>"No additional concrete needed. We just need the rule makers to let us all shoot from a yardage than we can average above 95% from."</i>

    Heck, WE WOULD have to add concrete because that would be the 14 yard line for me!!!
     
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