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Handicap code system

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by firecracker, Dec 2, 2007.

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  1. firecracker

    firecracker TS Member

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    Why is a shooter frozen at the new yardage and not the yardage he was punched from. If a shooter gets a 1.5 yard punch from let's say the 22.5 to the 24 he is frozen at the 24 for 2 years. If he has never been to the 24 before is it fair to freeze him at a yardage where he has not shown any ability? Can we expect him to shoot for 2 years from a yardage where he is not competitive? Maybe the freeze should prevent a reduction to a shorter yardage (22.5) than the 1.5 yards was earned from? cracker
     
  2. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    Cracker, what code are you talking about?
     
  3. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    His reference is to the "H" code applied to shooters shooting 98 or better at
    state, zone, Satelitte Grand or Grand American. My personal opinion this is
    detrimental to the sport. I have been coded that way for over 2 years. My
    averages during that same period would have given me about 2 yards in reduction, but alas. And some of us with this penalty did not even win anything with the score. Again, my opinion, but it seems the certain members of the EC and BoD are just overly concerned with the "dreaded sandbagger". But
    support the professionals of the sport with many previleges not extended to the
    average shooter. i.e. squadding, shoot times, and bank selections. - Jim
     
  4. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Right on Jim but what restrictions were placed on Kay for winning the GAH-answer-none!!
     
  5. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Jim Elliott truer words were never spoken. I have seen and heard of the "H" code to be forgotten to be removed, it is also unfair to restart the counter from the point of removal of the "H" Code.

    Some other codes are put on shooters from disgruntled delegates, and other delegates look the other way when yardage increases should have been given, just because that person is a friend or is a female intimate with him.

    It even happens at the top of the ATA personnel.


    Dr.longshot
    Gary Bryant
     
  6. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Handicap Code System-(def)-anyone who wins or places in a Handicap event at less than 27 yards is a sandbagger!!
     
  7. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Jerry, I'll assume Kay should have gotten an H code on his record over 30 years ago. I guess it's not really relevant because he's never been close to a reduction in that time period.

    As I previously stated, the ATA labels every shooter who wins or places in Handicap at less than 27 yards as a sandbagger. Another good reason for high shooter turnover!!
     
  8. swamp rat

    swamp rat TS Member

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    You will also get this code with the 1200.00 money punch. Which means you dont have to be good just lucky with the lewis.
     
  9. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Jerry, c'mon ole buddy. Open your mind a bit. Break a 98 in Handicap from the 21 yard line in a major shoot, move to the 23 and get stuck there with no hope for a reduction in two years. Play the money and make some for a change and you get yardage added. Now your forced to shoot thousands of targets at a yardage you may not be able to handle before smelling another reduction. The numbers prove the majority of shooters at short yardage are over-handicapped so why are they being discriminated against?

    Please tell me again what penalty the top shooters incur for winning major Handicap events or taking home the little dogs money! That little "h" beside their name means s--t!!
     
  10. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    Dear Kissable (I doubt that) - For you info I shot the 98 from the 27. (I played all the money in that event, and barely got my options back). That year I able to shoot several thousand targets and practiced a great deal. That is not always possible. And further for your info I am a Senior Vet. My
    eyesight has declined in the past couple of years, as has my ability to shoot as often and our club was closed making practice a great deal more difficult.
    I have been on the 27 on several occasion. But I am not truly a good 27 yard shooter. Sometimes everything will work and we shoot well, on average that is no true.

    I have been involved in this sport for almost 40 years. It seems to me we worry about some little shooter winning something, and if he/she does label
    them sandbaggers. We have also chased off a great many shooters. It takes
    a lot of time and money to be able to shoot long yardage. There are very very few that shoot consistant scores without doing same.

    As for me I truly believe we should adopt a system that offers reductions as
    follows. 2 yards for averages under 89 and 1 yard for averages under 91. As
    the current rules apply a person does not have to take the reduction. I for one will, and a great many of the shooters I know will. Those that want to stand on the 27 and shoot consistant low scores have that right, but stop trying to make all do it. I am very discouraged with the ATA. Both personally and as a proponent of this wonderful sport. I am entitled to a reduction, according to the rules, but I am told i must shoot more targets to qualify. I have shot over 5,000 with averages far below the trigger point.

    For all you distractors I would like to see you yardages and averages. If you
    believe, as some have posted above, post you name, # of targets and averages. Or be respectful enough to stay out of the fray. - Jim Elliott
     
  11. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with Kissable Wanker. I have no sympathy what-so-ever for someone who earns a "Money Punch" and gets stuck on his/her new yardage with an "H" code. I still think that many of the flaws of the Handicap System are a Regional problem and should be resolved with a Regional rather than across the board Fix. I suggest splitting the Western Zone into North and South regions strictly for the purpose of a different Reduction trigger point. The automatic half yard for a 96 should go but a punch for 97 or better should stay. 0300610
     
  12. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Tell us again wanker what effect the "H" code had on Kays' earnings after he won the GAH!

    wanker, why don't you admit it. You're nothing but a bonafide trinket shooter who covets every tin cup you see. Probably never played an option otherwise you might understand the plight of 95% of the ATA Handicap shooters. You certainly don't understand much about the system.

    With your attitude it's no wonder NJ has so few ATA shooters!!
     
  13. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Yeah Jerry, maybe a bit of a reach, but realistically, that's the reason for implementing these changes in the first place. I fail to see the difference between an underhandicapped "H" code shooter at 27 yards taking the money away from a short yardage shooter or an underhandicapped short yardage shooter doing the same to that long yardage shooter. That's why the code system stinks and should be eliminated or changed.

    You would think the "powers that be" in the ATA would have understood the ramifications of that very poor rule and never implemented it. Way too much head bobbing and yes sir'ng in that group and not in the best interests of the entire membership!!
     
  14. Mike Michalski

    Mike Michalski Member

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    Jim, You've got to be kidding, right? That sort of thing does not happen at ATA sanctioned events I'm sure.
     
  15. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Wanker, it's getting increasingly difficult for me to sandbag from the fence as I get older. I'll have to ask Kay how he does it.

    By the way, I know a few certified sandbaggers from short yardage who have been assigned the dreaded "H" code. Easy solution for them is not shoot Handicap for two years, come back, and seek reductions. We'all know a few-don't we. I thought the ATA's goal was to promote shooting-not chase them away. Reduction shooting is what keeps many of the small clubs active.

    Ya going out this weekend chasing Mickey Mouse glassware again-aren't you. Or maybe do you attend all those big shoots and shoot practice-then tell everyone how you could have won the money if you played it!!
     
  16. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Wanker, if you live long enough you'll find not everyone's kissable nor a wanker!!
     
  17. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Jim Elliott I totally agree with your assessment, but they won't listen to the average shooter anymore, the ATA does not listen to it's members any more. When they took away the priviledges and actions of life members they have almost destroyed the game of trapshooting, that is why I enjoy buddy shoots so much more, and programs that are related to shoot hdcp from what you break on your 16 yd score for calcuttas and 50 bird shoots.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    oleolliedawg- I suspect the "average" shooter has no idea what an H code is and if it were explained to them, they would not have an opinion about the usefulness of the code. The "average" shooter shoots a few different clubs and his state shoot. He plays no money and shoots trap for fun.

    Gary- What "privileges and actions of life members" did the ATA remove? I have absolutely no idea what this refers to. Could you help me understand?

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Pat, I suspect your assessment of the "average shooter" may not be totally accurate. I know plenty of "average shooters" who attend the PA State Shoot and play the ticket hoping to make that one big score!!
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    oleolliedawg- Yes, some do play the ticket but more do not play the ticket. Playing options has decreased significantly. I believe this decrease has nothing to do with handicap classification and codes, but rather a realization that gambling on options has a very low return except for a few. All the money that is won from an option is also lost by others playing the same option.

    I also contend that many shooters who play options do not understand them. I am certain that some on this site do not realize that a Lewis purse that pays three classes is actually a 1/3 high gun purse and only a 2/3 luck purse. They would never play a high gun singles purse but will play a Lewis option. I am sure you know the difference between a singles purse that pays 4 places and a high gun purse that pays 4 places, but many others do not.

    Pat Ireland
     
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