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Handicap 1000 target requirement for the Grand.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by slugbug1, Jun 28, 2010.

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  1. slugbug1

    slugbug1 Member

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    I'm confused by these two seemingly conflicting requirements in the Grand American program concerning the handicap minimum amount of targets:

    2)"No, participant shall be classified to shoot Handicap events at less than 25 yards unless they have
    a minimum of 1000 registered Handicap targets in the current year. The 1000 handicap targets
    must have been registered beginning the first day after the last day of previous Grand American
    World Championships through the first day of preliminary week of the current Grand American
    Championships. However, participants who fail to meet Grand American Handicap qualification as
    described above shall have the choice of shooting targets only from their assigned yardage provided
    they waive and forfeit all rights to ATA Trophies, options, purses and added Money."

    It says the 1000 targets have to be registered before the first day of prelim week. But then # 5 says:

    5) All targets shot from Tuesday, August 3, through Sunday, August 8, may be applied toward meeting
    the above target requirements. If target requirements are met, you will remain shooting assigned
    yardage in handicap and/or assigned classification in singles and doubles unless your class is advanced
    or yardage is earned.

    I'm going to get there with 900 registered handicap targets. Can I use prelims to get to 1000 or not? And, I'm a 26 yard shooter, so does it matter if I have 1000 targets, or does that apply only to 24 yard shooters and less?

    I'm afraid the question may be more complicated than the rule. GaryL.
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Gary, it doesn't apply to you, so you can forget it.

    However, you have pointed out a problem with the program which would bedevil us if we didn't plan ahead. I will forward your information to CHC Chairman Dick Marascola and the Classification Committee will come up with a consistent ruling and when _you_ get to the Grand, you will see announcements about how the problem you found has been taken care of.

    Trapshooters.com has warned us of problems many times before, often in time to head them off. Thanks for your sharp eye.

    Neil
     
  3. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Neil maybe I am wrong but I am reading that differently than you are I think.


    If a shooter went there with 900 targets and was less than 25yds he would be able to use his first 100 toward the 1,000 target qualifiers. He wouldn't however be able to use it as one of the four events to the $100,000 event unless he shoots from 25yds.

    Which might be one of the reasons it is worded the way it is. Just a thought and if I look at it that way it makes sense.

    Bob Lawless
     
  4. Stubbie

    Stubbie TS Member

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    Neil what is the position of an overseas visitor who say has only 600 targets in the 2010 year on 21yds shot at Iowa state can he use the prelim Hcp scores to qualify for the Grand week hcps with out penalty. Will he have to shoot 25yds penalty for the prelim caps to get the 1000 targets hope that makes sense.

    Kind Regards
    Stubbie
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Bob, a 24 yard shooter gets to the Grand with 900 targets and decides to shoot "Targets only" until he "has his targets."

    He shoots from the 24 in event 2. He is "targets only" in that event.

    But in that event he hits 1000 targets threshold and so continues to shoot from the 24, but now it's not targets only, it's for the whole thing, eligible for everything.

    The problem with paragraph 5 that Gary pointed out is that the precise applies only to people who have elected to shoot targets only. (I think.) How about people who shoot penalty that first event 2. What happens to them? They won't "remain" anywhere, will they? The will move forward I think, but it certainly doesn't say that.

    It doesn't apply to Gary since his yardage 26 and penalty does not apply to him.

    Neil
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Stubbie, you have to watch out for American English conventions. When you say "preliminary handicap" we think of the single event prior to the big one, whatever that is. But I think you mean the handicaps in the week before Grand week.

    I think you can use those four to shoot Grand Week without penalty. In fact I'm sure you can. But still, considering the distance you are coming from, I think I'd better be double sure. I'll find out so you get it right, for sure, in writing. It will take a couple of days.

    Neil
     
  7. Stubbie

    Stubbie TS Member

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    Neil I should have said preliminary week handicaps sorry about that you are up late tonight. I am arriving from Australia into your state to go fishing at lake Winnie on the 14th July before shooting the Iowa State. I will await your reply to see if I may have to try and get some reg ATA shoots in Minnesota so i have the 1000 targets before I get to the Grand Or speak kindly to Dick Marascola who I have known for years LOL!!!!!

    Kindest Regards
    Stubbie aka John Holder
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Neil I think what is confusing me is this statement in the program,

    "The 1000 handicap targets must have been registered beginning the first day after the last day of previous Grand American World Championships through the first day of preliminary week of the current Grand American Championships."

    It says THROUGH the fist day of preliminary week. Which is August 3 and if it says THROUGH doesn't that mean that penalty goes into affect on the 4??? This and a part of 5 is what is confusing me.

    5/ also says "All targets shot from Tuesday, August 3, through Sunday, August 8, may be applied toward meeting the above target requirements."

    It seems like they are giving you Tuesday the 3rd as a free day. So is it part of qualifying or part of penalty????

    Not looking to start a major insurrection just saying what is confusing me. In my first post I thought I had it figured out then I started looking a little closer and I don't have it figured at all.

    It doesn't really matter in my case as I won't be there and even if I could I would be shooting penalty because there is no way I could shoot a 1,000 targets between now and then.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    It's no insurrection, Bob. You are just pointing out how carelessly this paragraph was written and how much work it needs. I thank both you and Gary; it will be better next year.

    Neil
     
  10. GoldTrigger

    GoldTrigger Member

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    wow just when I thought I had it all figured out, another fly gets in my ointment. While I am certainly too new at all this level of trap shooting to even have any expectations of winning the $100,000.00 prize I have to keep my postive thoughts and dreams alive. I understand the handicap events must be shot with Factory ammunition this year but in the third post on this thread it says the final 4 events are for the big prize..... I am under the impression that it is the final 9 handicap events.... Am I sooooo wrong once again ?
     
  11. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Goldtrigger,

    Yes, you are wrong. Re-read the third post that you cite.

    Bob said "He wouldn't however be able to use it as one of the four events to the $100,000 event ... ."

    Bob didn't say "final" four. And, there aren't a "final 9 handicap events" as you put it. There are a total of nine handicaps, combined, for the Preliminary and Grand weeks, of which, a shooter must shoot four in order for them to be in contention for the $100,000 (provided they win one of the handicaps).
     
  12. GoldTrigger

    GoldTrigger Member

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    ok, as I said I do not have enough experience. Thank you for the quick reply but I just went back again to the ATA site and all it says is win one of the nine handicap events for a spot at the big shootoff. If there is a 4 event requirement where does it say that ?
    I am not trying to stir anything up here just trying to learn how to find these intricate rules everyone seems to find.

    Thanks again for the help in this.... Either way , I am going to the grand and plan on having a great time as I did last year.... My first...
     
  13. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    The four handicap event minimum was mentioned in the initial information regarding the shoot-off.
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    There is just a little typo error in the program. First, preliminary event targets can be used to avoid penalty classification. If one arrives during the preliminary events with only 800 targets he will be classified with a penalty. After he shoots an additional 200 targets, he can then be reclassified without a penalty.

    The typo error. If you read the penalty classification section for singles, it states 1000 singles targets from the last day of the previous Grand through the last day of the preliminary week. The same wording is used in the doubles classification section. But in the handicap section, the words "last day" are replaced by "first day". This must simply be a typo error and the CHC will have everything corrected by the Grand.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of typos, I notice all events are $30.00 including the 200 target singles events.

    Bob
     
  16. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Guys,
    Its the ATA and the first "A" stands for "Amateur" and typos and confusion are typical.

    Yea I am being a prick but I expect better from an organization that has been putting on an event for a 100+ years

    Jeff
     
  17. Darla

    Darla Member

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    This has been addressed on shootata at the link above. All prelim week targets count toward minimums.

    Jeff, it would be nice if there were no typos in the program. As many hours as we spend looking at our state shoot program, there's always something to post a correction about. You need to remember that the organization isn't doing the program, it's just people. Most of us are highly motivated to have everything correct, but sometimes stuff happens. It is not a lack of effort, just plain old human error. I hope most of you will cut those that do this every year a little slack. Darla
     
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