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H&R Detonation

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by BBowen, Feb 17, 2012.

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  1. BBowen

    BBowen Member

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    Will those of you who are proponents of "detonation" please give me the recipe for a shotshell detonation? I want to detonate my H&R.
    Bruce Bowen
     
  2. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    go get 'em Bruce. I am with you. Rick ... Texas
     
  3. mag410

    mag410 Active Member

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    Bruce,

    I know you have tried lots of ways to replicate the "blowups". Have you tried a live primer in the powder? Of course you will have to try every brand ever made or the naysayers will say "it would have blown if you had just tried primer X". :)

    Michael Goines
     
  4. billyboy07208

    billyboy07208 Member

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    is it possible to crush some of the powder grains [via excessive wad pressure] into finer particulates,thereby creating abnormal pressures?

    Just do that test all over again,but this time backbore the HnR to .030" wall thickness at the forcing cone.Should get a detonation then.
     
  5. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Leave the gun outside for a while. A mud dauber nest in the barrel ought to get the job done.

    I have given up on metal wind chimes. After a month or so outside, the mud daubers get them so caked full of mud that they barely make a sound when the wind bangs them together.

    Is there really such a thing as detonation?

    I remember some pistol shooters explaining to me that they always raised the muzzles of their .38 special target revolvers so that the small 4 or 5 grain powder charges were next to the primer so that they would get more uniform ignition, not prevent detonation.

    Ed Ward
     
  6. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Bruce Bowen, if you want to learn how to detonate smokeless powder that's used in shotgun shells contact Dr. Bruce R. McCord professor of analytical and forensic chemistry at Florida International university, mccord@fiu.edu or call him at 305-348-7543 He might save you from wasting a lot of time in your quest for a catastrophic event.
     
  7. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    mag410,

    That was in the original tests a few years ago. You can probably find that thread pretty easily by doing a search using Bruce's sign-on name he does't post much, but always a good read.

    ss
     
  8. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    This should be interesting. My guess is you will not be detonating your H&R with anything resembling a shotshell load.



    Jim
     
  9. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    Bruce already tried the live primer in the powder. Along with double charges and all sorts of other combinations that were commonly held as sure fire blow-ups.

    Along the same lines, the Mythbusters did the same thing with a Remington 870. They packed the barrel with mud and only got a slight bulge. It wasn't until they welded a steel plate on the end that they got anything that resembled a bananna peel.
     
  10. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    bowen, your really not going to rekindle that old fire again, are you. There were enough bogus results from your so called tests the last time to last 50 years. People actually think you proved something and all you did was pet your ego.

    No, you have no intention of solving these incidents.....or you would not have asked such a stupid question......especially on this forum.

    <EM>"Will those of you who are proponents of "detonation" please give me the recipe for a shotshell detonation? I want to detonate my H&R. Bruce Bowen"</EM>
     
  11. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    You'll be surprised how difficult it is to blown a H & R barrel.

    10 or so years ago, we did a week long test about how to distroy a shotgun barrel by using all kind of double charges, plugged barrel, and 20 ga live round in front of 12 ga. shell. The first two subject guns were both 30" H & R Topper with rusted barrel and receiver. One barrel was not even straight.

    Let me tell you, it's difficult. They finally failed after half dozen tries on each.

    The third gun was an old 1100 with broken stock, rusted barrel and fell off rib. The wad plugged barrel and double charge loads did the same result: Bolt slammed back to the receiver and stucked back. No blown barrel. At this point, we were tired, so we gave the 1100 to a gunsmith to play with it's parts.

    I'm always wondering how exactly those people managed to blown their shotgun barrels?
     
  12. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    When Winchester brought out the model 59 in 12 ga with the Win-Lite glass wrapped stainless steel liner. One of their safety selling points of this new barrel was to shoot a live 20 ga shell out the barrel! Many times according to what I've read when they were demonstrating the gun.

    Hap
     
  13. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Bruce, according to Hodgdon, they have tried off-and-on for the past 30yrs to create detonation, up to and including: grinding several fast powders to dust, putting 5 or 10 grains of powder (and a lot of air) laying at various angles, double and triple loads, caked ... and they have been unable to create detonation in a 12ga hull.

    The above referenced Dr McCord asserts that smokeless powder CAN detonate, however, he has nowhere stated that he can create detonation <i>in a 12ga shell.</i> BEEG difference.

    The believers believe ...

    Bob
     
  14. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    bob, If one were to create a detonation in a 12ga shell, just how would they know??????

    If bowen were to succeed to destroy a 12ga......how would he know what he had really accomplished. Blowing open a barrel or destroying a complete gun.....bowen would not be able to authenticate the cause. All he would have is another broken gun and a big dumb look on his face.....it's groundhog day every time this happens.

    If his faulty reloads or stuck wads(over pressure) cannot satisfy him, there are only 2 things left.

    BTW. the nasty is not confined to just the shell, it's using the whole barrel.
     
  15. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Hap, the first gun I ever saw blow up was a Winchester Model 59 back in the 60's. Supposedly the kid reloader was adding additional shot to his shells. The barrel ended up at the traphouse!!
     
  16. JohnR

    JohnR Active Member

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    I guess another way to look at it is since you proved that you can not blow the gun up with a stuck wad or double charge than what will cause this type of destruction other than detonation? It's also not limited to one manufactures gun or type of gun. Pics of a Winchester 101 after a misfire, gun was on the way down after the misfire when it exploded, reloads used.

    Yes, I am a believer in detonation, unfortunately there is no way to intentionally load a shell or cartridge that will detonate.

    JohnR


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  17. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    221, admittedly the cannon-breech H&R is not the ideal test-bed, but Bowen does have pressure testing equipment and a calculator, and the definition of detonation is pretty well accepted, so if he gets a BOOM and backfigures expansion velocity at 15,000 m/sec (even if it is crudely figured and not correct within scientific standards), I'd say he has 'detonated;, no?

    If he was been unable to even change chamber measurements with 40gn of Bullseye, I'd say more fast powder in a hull is not going to explode.

    Bob
     
  18. tj303

    tj303 Member

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    If it has been 'proven' by Bowen and Mythbuster that no obstruction (other than welding the barrel closed), double charge, live primer in powder, etc, can result in a gun blowing up how do we account for the fact some shotguns have blown up? Or are they all urban legends and Photo-Shopped pictures?
    [​IMG]
     
  19. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The truth about detonation is being keep secret. But if there is a very loud noise and your gun is destroyed there is a very good chance there was powder detonation. HMB
     
  20. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Metal fatigue, or inclusions in the steel that somebody missed when it was Ultrasonic and x-ray tested.

    I worked in a specialty stainless steel bar mill that sold steel to Smith & Wesson and Ruger. We shipped out bars that came back as scrap because one of the UT guys wasn't paying attention. They caught it on the other end. But how many did they miss? Human error....Happens all the time..JMO

    Wayne
     
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