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Gunfitting Someone with a Long Neck

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by RichinPeoria, May 26, 2008.

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  1. RichinPeoria

    RichinPeoria TS Member

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    Good afternoon everyone,

    Im new to trap shooting. I bought my first case of Guns Clubs and Im working my way thru them at Peoria Trap And Skeet.

    Im shooting an Ithaca Model 51 Trap gun that was a project gun.
    It's now in very good shape with an Ithaca 30" high rib fixed full barrel and a Monte Carlo parallel comb stock just like it came from the facory.

    I have found that I shoot much better when I dont bend my neck down to meet the comb. However when I keep my head up, bring the gun to my face/shoulder and level(hide) the rib, the heal of the stock is about 1 inch below my colar bone.

    What are my choices here?

    Im also considering buying an 1100 and fiting a high rib barrel (Hastings or Money Maker)and having an adjustable comb fitted?

    Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    With a long neck it would help to have an adjustable butt plate. That way you can drop the recoil pad down so it fits in the shoulder pocket and you can keep your head up and level. HMB
     
  3. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    I have the same problem. Solved with a PFS on my Ljutic, purchased a keen add-on rib, whiched raised my rib to about 1 3/8's ", then made a new high comb to fit the PFS. You can also do this on most trap guns.
     
  4. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    All American Jimmy Heller doesn't consider that a problem.
     
  5. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Rich;

    It is not surprising when you say that you shoot better with your head in an upright position. Most shooters do; it is the correct way to mount a gun and to instruct new shooters.

    The problem with your Model 51 is that the heel is too far below the level of the rib. This assumes that with the lowered gun mount you use, your eye is in the correct vertical position or height relative to the rib.

    Your options are two: Replace the rib with one that is about 1 1/2" lower OR have a pad/stock adjuster installed. Such a mechanism would allow you to raise the recoil pad so you could mount the gun with the heel of the pad on your collar bone and still look along or slightly down-onto the rib.

    Rollin

    A pad adjuster would also make an 1100 fit better. You would lower the pad to compensate for a long neck.

    One simple pad adjuster is the Jones. Another better one is the one made by Todd Nelson, the Country Gentleman - website address above. The Jones adjuster is less than a quarter-inch thick and will have as little effect on the length of pull of your stock as any. I don't know how thick Todd's adjusters are.
     
  6. RichinPeoria

    RichinPeoria TS Member

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    Rollin said:

    "It is not surprising when you say that you shoot better with your head in an upright position. Most shooters do; it is the correct way to mount a gun and to instruct new shooters.

    The problem with your Model 51 is that the heel is too far below the level of the rib. This assumes that with the lowered gun mount you use, your eye is in the correct vertical position or height relative to the rib.

    Your options are two: Replace the rib with one that is about 1 1/2" lower OR have a pad/stock adjuster installed. Such a mechanism would allow you to raise the recoil pad so you could mount the gun with the heel of the pad on your collar bone and still look along or slightly down-onto the rib.

    Thanks for the information Rollin,

    Sorry for the confusion, Im new to this, I ment to say "However when I keep my head up, bring the gun to my face/shoulder and level(hide) the rib, the TOE of the stock is about 1 inch below my colar bone"

    I have to hold the gun up very high to sight down the rib.

    I guess then I would want to increase the height of the rib by 1.5"? It has a standard factory rib that is 3/8" at the center site pin.

    Maybe it will come out looking like this?

    http://www.gunsamerica.com/976843642/Guns/Shotguns/Remington-Shotguns/Autoloaders/Trap-Skeet/Remington_11_87_Custom_High_Rib_Trap_Gun.htm#
     
  7. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Peoria Trap and Skeet has been closed for quite some time from what I have been told, so how are you out there shooting ..? I just called one of the people who was a long time member out there and yep they have been closed for quite a while ... I smell fish ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  8. Almcvey

    Almcvey Member

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    Peoria Trap and Skeet is not closed and never has been. Look at all the registered shoots they have on the ISTA web site. All so just search Peoria trap and skeet, the club has their own web site.
     
  9. John Thompson

    John Thompson TS Member

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    WTP

    I shot 700 registered targets at Peoria over the weekend.

    Rich,

    I don't think Ithaca ever made a Trap version model 51. Could be part of the problem, if I'm correct. I have used Nelson and Jones "Pad adjusters" to get full contact of recoil pad on the shoulder and remain with head erect style. You should be able to locate used high rib barrels for 1100 Rem.s or 390 series Berettas much easier than for the Ithaca. Call me in Peoria, I'm on Sunset Way. I will loan you a pad adjuster & put it on for you to try.
     
  10. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Rollin It's good to see you posting..
     
  11. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Clarification (an oversimplification):

    The two stock dimensions involved here are "drop at the heel" ('doh' - the distance of the heel [top of the recoil pad] below the level of the rib and "drop at the comb" (doc - the distance of the comb or top surface of the stock, below the level of the rib).

    The two dimensions, doh and doc, when the gun fits the shooter, compensate for the height of the gun mount and the length of the shooter's neck (doh) and the distance between the shooter's cheekbone and the pupil of his or her eye (doc).

    You have to mount your gun with the toe (pointed, bottom of the recoil pad or butt) on your collar bone rather than the upper heel is that the gun has too little drop at the heel - it's not far enough below the level of the rib. A pad adjuster would correct the problem.

    The problem could also be corrected by increasing the height of the rib. That does not seem like a good idea because the extra height needed seems excessive, possibly more than two inches.

    It might be best to consider both options, used in conjunction. You could possibly find a pad adjuster that would allow your recoil pad to be lowered close to three inches but lowering it that much would greatly increase the barrel rise during recoil, which could punish your cheek.

    Drop at the heel and drop at the comb are relatively independent of each other meaning that changing one does not have that much effect on the other dimension. (This relationship is unlike that of many other dimensional relationships. Often changing one has a significant affect on others.)

    Now... if the rib is raised, the comb on the gun may also have to be raised because that would increase the distance between the comb and the surface of the rib. It may not match the distance between your cheekbone and your eye.

    To shoot well, the drop at the comb MUST be correct, i.e. must match the distance between the pupil of your eye and your cheekbone because your eye is the rear sight on a shotgun. It serves the same purpose as the rear sight on a rifle.

    Although the drop at the heel is important in that it allow shooting with an upright head and neck position, (and helps keep the head in the same position relative to the rib during swings), it is not as important as the doc dimension, which positions the eye relative to the rib. To shoot your best, all stock dimensions must fit your particular size and shape, which allows the use of the correct gun mount, body posture and stance.

    Rollin
     
  12. The Rock

    The Rock Active Member

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    I wonder what a stock would look like to fit him?
     
  13. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    It's nice to be able to read your words again Rollin. One of many value added contributors to this site.
     
  14. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Just where is the club that everyone is calling Peoria Trap and Skeet because they never held registered shoots out there either ... Peoria Trap and Skeet is or was a little 2 trap club northwest of Sun City West off of Grand Ave (Rte 60) and its where the MCSO used to have a range for the Police Depts in the area to practice ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  15. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    We are all talking about Peoria, Arizona right ... There is a "RichinPeoria" here in Arizona and the Peoria Club in Arizona is and has been closed for months ... ISTA sounds like someone might be refering to a club in Illinois ..? It appears that we might be talking about two different places and thats whats causing the confusion ... WPT ... (YAC) ...Your Arizona Connection ...
     
  16. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Bill, this Rich is in Illinois.
     
  17. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    You would think that someone who spent most of his life in Illinois would hear "Peoria<" and just assume it was Peoria, Illinois. What the heck is Peoria, Arizona
    -one gas station and a taco stand?
     
  18. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Dick,

    Thats the way it was until I moved and the city closest to me now is Peoria, Arizona, in no way is it a little blip on the map but a sprauling suburb of Phoenix with many major business's and there is a Taco place there by the way and more gas stations that one could even imagine ... I figured there had to be a different Peoria that was being refered to in a very short time, and yes I do remember Peoria, Illinois but never knew that there was a trap club out there back when I was living in Illinois ... Peoria Sportmans Club (in Arizona) was a neat little two trap club and pistol range in the middle of the desert with about 600 members including the snow birds, due to urban spraul its no longer in existance ... My mistake, no harm no foul ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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