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Gun show canceled due to insurance requirements

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Joe Potosky, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    BOISE, Idaho (AP) - Members of a southwestern Idaho gun club may have to end a decades-long tradition of gun shows because Ada County raised its insurance requirements after two people were injured in an accidental firearm discharge at the club's show in April.

    The Idaho Press-Tribune reports officials with EE-DA-HOW Long Rifles canceled its Fort Boise Gun Show last weekend after Expo Idaho increased its insurance requirements to $5 million.

    The insurance would have cost the Kuna-based club $18,000 - more than it makes from the show.

    Expo Idaho Director Bob Batista said he did not know if the higher insurance cost would affect the other five guns shows the venue hosts each year.

    Gun show coordinator Kim Tish says the club is looking to find insurance at a reasonable cost.

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    Accidents or not, you can expect to see this implemented in anti-gun regions to deter Gun Shows!
     
  2. 548

    548 Guest

    But don't your auto insurance rates go up after an "accident" too?

    Looks more like prior carelessness is to blame in my opinion.
     
  3. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Pitiful the extremes people will take things just because they don't like something and have the power to enact such lunacy

    And you are right they will start chiseling away our right by making it too high priced to do business
     
  4. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    And people think that OboCare is going to work!!!

    Someone should write up a "waiver" to sign and enter at your own risk posters.

    Remember your dealing with lawyers who write up the language insurance company's use.

    Why 5 million, because if it happens again, LAWYERS will get more money. The system is, Lawyers first move is find HOW MUCH insurance MONEY is accessible form all involved! Creates BIG pay outs for them NOT victim's!

    case in point;

    Some idiot in Olympia, WA had our Hunter Ed program put through a "risk assessment" NOW we will not be able to have real guns in the class's that students will be able to handle. Plus a bunch of other things!!

    We as instructors were not informed until after the fact. Why, because some of us knew the program DID NOT need to go through a evaluation by "risk assessment". Something about being a "public educational program" SCREWED up a perfectly running program!!

    I am all for a Constitutional amendment stating that ANYONE with a LAW degree CAN NOT hold ANY public office. But its to late I think, over 90% of politicians are LAWYERS in some form or another.

    Can't fix stupid so,
    Rant over!!
     
  5. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    You can sign all the waivers you want but if the show is negligent they still are responsible and the enter at your own risk is thrown out the door.
     
  6. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Rick Barker,

    My understanding is that liability insurance, whether through a primary policy or through an umbrella policy, covers you for liability from UNINTENDED consequences of your legal actions.

    In other words, if you shoot someone who you intended to shoot, then your liability policy doesn't cover that. However, if you were justified in legally shooting at someone, but missed them and hit an innocent bystander, then the liability policy would come into play then.

    If/when a person purchases a liability policy, they should examine it carefully to make sure that firearm incidents are not excluded from coverage under the policy.

    I'm not an expert on this and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I THINK this is the way it works. Check with your agent or attorney to be sure.

    Easystreet
     
  7. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    So according to 548, if two people go into a store and one hurts the other person, the store should have their insurance jacked up.

    Brilliant.
     
  8. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Rick,

    Generally you are correct, unintended consquences of one's actions have been covered by liability insurance. However, there was recently a case in WI that addressed this very issue and the State Supreme Court ruled that the unintended results were not covered. I believe that was more a of public policy decision as it involved an underaged drinking party. But it will be interesting to see how far some try to stretch this decision.

    Liability policies generally cover what the policy holder is "legally liable" for, regardless of whether the actions were legal or not. There is generally an exclusion for intentional acts and that is where the unintended consequences of the intentional act comes in.

    Brian, no one's insurance gets jacked up if the injured party in your example doesn't sue the store because some one beats him up in the store. But unfortunately, the store does get sued.
     
  9. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Rick,

    Generally you are correct, unintended consquences of one's actions have been covered by liability insurance. However, there was recently a case in WI that addressed this very issue and the State Supreme Court ruled that the unintended results were not covered. I believe that was more a of public policy decision as it involved an underaged drinking party. But it will be interesting to see how far some try to stretch this decision.

    Liability policies generally cover what the policy holder is "legally liable" for, regardless of whether the actions were legal or not. There is generally an exclusion for intentional acts and that is where the unintended consequences of the intentional act comes in.

    Brian, no one's insurance gets jacked up if the injured party in your example doesn't sue the store because some one beats him up in the store. But unfortunately, the store does get sued.
     
  10. marsingbob

    marsingbob Active Member

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    One thing to consider is that perhaps the primary expense to the insurance company in most situations involving a claim is not the liability to the claimant, but rather the cost of defending its insured.

    I am not certain we are getting the full story on the insurance cost issue. The local press reported that the previous coverage was 2 million and cost the club sponsoring the show $2000. The new policy for 5 million was to cost $18000. Normally increasing policy limits reduces the cost per dollar of coverage, because defense costs are already factored into the lower policy cost. I suspect the primary reason for the cost increase was that the injury and potential claim caused the insurance company to reconsider the risk and premium it was charging.
     
  11. 548

    548 Guest

    Brian, use your head.
     
  12. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    No, you use yours.

    A customer comes into a gun shop to sell his gun, pulls it out, has an AD and shoots another customer. Should the store owner's insurance go up?

    If a customer drives onto a car dealer's lot and drives over another customer, should the dealer's insurance go up?