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Gun sale - do I need to use FFL dealer

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by amboy49, Sep 15, 2011.

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  1. amboy49

    amboy49 Well-Known Member

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    I am an Indiana resident. I have sold a gun to a Michigan resident (assumed) by advertising it here on Trapshooters. I am meeting the buyer in Michigan this weekend to conclude the sale face to face. Do I need to make the transfer with/through an FFL licensed firearms dealer ? Either legally or just to have the transfer go through the federal record keeping process in case it would be stolen or used illegally in the future?

    BTW, the gun is Remington 3200 trap gun - not a handgun or assault weapon (at least by my definition). I am not a dealer and have sold very few guns over my lifetime - but I seem to recall I always had the buyer complete the paper work - and obviously the same when I've purchased one.

    I'd appreciate any comments from someone who holds an FFL or has sold a gun across state lines.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. ou.3200

    ou.3200 Well-Known Member

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    I have sold a couple of my personal firearms across state lines. The Gun Control Act of 1968 requires sale of a gun to a resident of another state to go through a dealer who holds a FFL whether face to face or shipped. It is a felony to do otherwise. The BATFE website has the information
     
  3. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it must be transferred thru a dealer.
     
  4. amboy49

    amboy49 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone in Michigan know of an FFL dealer in or near Baldwin, mi ?

    Am boy 49
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    You could sell it within your state to another resident of the state.

    Your situation requires an FFL unless the buyer is a relative.

    HM
     
  6. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    You meet the guy at his house for a visit or a shoot, you leave with out taking the shotgun with you.

    How is the ATF privy to what you just did?

    Do you have to claim your firearms when you hunt out of state?

    I would like to see the ATF authority over this type of "private" sale.

    Its when you "ship" the firearm and it crosses state lines it requires a dealer.

    ATF only concern is with licensed Dealers and Mexican Cartels.

    I'll ask my daughter tomorrow, she deals with them(ATF) every day.
     
  7. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Great advice timberfaller! NOT...

    The law is clear. A non-licensee may only purchase from a licensee out of state.

    As stated, it is a felony if caught.
     
  8. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I just called the BATF agent in Ohio and he gave me the page for non-licensees
    of selling long guns, shotguns and rifles, they can be made to in state persons face to face. If you sell a long gun to an individual in out of state, you can do the sale at his or her residence if you feel they are legal user and not going to use it for illeagal purposes.

    If you ship him the gun it must be sent to a licensed FFL dealer.

    Handguns are a totally different story.

    For info go to BATF web site and read pages 175-181, these deal with private long gun sales by non-license individuals.

    Long guns can practically be sold in any state in FACE to FACE sales.

    BUT NOT HANDGUNS.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  9. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    LEGAL...

    ATF Frequently Asked Questions

    Unlicensed Persons Questions

    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer
     
  10. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Notice the word 'licensee' ask the atf what that means!
     
  11. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    A "licensee" is a person with a license.
     
  12. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Wow.

    The question was answered correctly early on, and then as happens all the time, more bad posts get added that probably confuse those trying to find the answer.

    Read Joe's cite: it is illegal to sell to a non-resident without going through a dealer.Totally disregard LS's post, not sure what "in out of state" means but you cannot sell to a nonresident of your state w/o going through a FFL holder.
     
  13. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    I had a similar problem when I bought my Mod. 12 at a large gun show here in Ohio.

    Guy was carrying it over his shoulder. I had to ask three times where he was from.

    First two times, Michigan, third time, TOLEDO.....SOLD



    Regards....Gerald
     
  14. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    This makes it legal... (in any State - in person)

    except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides.
     
  15. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Not Legal without a dealer

    ATF Frequently Asked Questions

    Unlicensed Persons Questions

    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may ONLY acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, ,,,EXCEPT.... that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a ,,,LICENSEE'S (DEALER)premises..... in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
     
  16. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Joe:

    As I said, the question was answered. You are posting the correct words but not understanding the terms. A "licensee" means a FFL holder. Read what you posted, what it is saying is you can purchases out-of-state only from a FFL. The answer to the OP is he cannot (legally) sell it w/o an FFL involved.
     
  17. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. That's what's getting lost here. Licensee means "with a FFL "
     
  18. sernv99

    sernv99 Active Member

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    Timberfaller is the type of gun owner that we don't need. What kind of crap advice is he giving.... just meet the guy and give the gun to him? WTF! Just plain stupid advice....
     
  19. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    What happened to Dr. Longshot's page 175 to 181? Maybe he would quote us the paragraph he thinks he read.
     
  20. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    Sernv,

    You like putting your foot in your mouth?

    You didn't even take the time to read or think about my post!

    I said I was going to check it out and report back what I find out!

    Get off your high horse!!
     
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