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Gun position for handicap

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by coyote268, Jun 27, 2007.

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  1. coyote268

    coyote268 TS Member

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    I'm doing allright at the 16 yard line but when I get back to the 21 I am very inconsistent. One person tells me to hold just below the top of the house for quicker target aquization, while another tells me to hold two feet high to the side of center. I am a very deliberate shooter and not a speed merchant. One individual gets on me for this as he says I have to shoot quicker. Even with my deliberate shooting the targets seem to break nicely whenever I manage to hit them so I don't pay much attention to his advice although I might do this when I start shooting doubles on a regular basis. What is the general position of hold for this yardage.
    Thanks
    Dan
     
  2. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Shoot as fast or as slow as you want ... if it works for you it works as long as your breaking the birds but dont count out what he is telling you, give it an honest try but just remember if it works for you it works and it just might be an improvement, ya just never know.
     
  3. 1Trapshooter1

    1Trapshooter1 TS Member

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    I wouldn't rely on other short yardage shooters for advice, if what they are doing is so good, they wouldn't be short yardage. Also, we all know that all shooters are different. The 21 yard line should be no different from the 16, shoot em the same, as you move further back you just have to be more precise.
     
  4. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    I shot with a guy once that took sooooo long from call to shot. When we were done with the round I was going to ask him how he could shoot that slow. Before I could get that out of my mouth he asks me how I can shoot that fast. Different strokes. Practice different ways and do what works for you.

    Bob
     
  5. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Dan.... Absolutely nothing changes between the 16 and the 21 yard line except where you are standing. Shoot the 21 yard targets just the same as you do the 16 yard targets and don't worry about anything at all. You won't notice any changes in shooting handicap yardage until you get back to the 23 or 24 yard line, and then again at about the 25. Don't let your yardage mess with your mind because there is no difference between your yardage and the 16. Relax, shoot well, and enjoy the short yard targets while you still have the opportunity to shoot them.....Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  6. pdq

    pdq Member

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    I tend to give advice from guys like Phil Kiner more credibility than the guy standing on the post next to me. Phils advice is to shoot short handicap yardage basically the same as targets from the 16. If you get his new DVD, the only difference is that he'll tell you to experiment with different hold points, but that as a general rule, to start out a bit lower than when on 16.

    And, I'd ignore the people who tell you to shoot fast. That target is not going to outrun shot traveling at 1145 feet per second. I suspect that if you try to shoot fast, you are going to be pushing the gun around. Spend some time shooting practice, take a calm swing, and try a slightly lower hold position.

    I began watching Phil's DVD expecting that he would give iron-fast rules that say "you should always do it this way and no other". Instead, he gives a lot of advice on how to find out what's best for you. And, that on any given day, he changes things around based on wind, lighting, other conditions if he finds he's not crushing the targets as hard as he'd like, such that even he doesn't always do it the same way 100% of the time.

    Remember -- shooting trap wouldn't be fun if it wasn't challenging. Or at least that's what I tell myself.

    Pete
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    But, shooting very deliberate and slow are symptoms of aiming the shotgun rather than pointing it. Most newer shooters do begin with aiming the gun but that is a habit that should be eliminated with a little experience.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    While Pat's right on, I've always preached if you focus on a smooth move to the bird and pulling the trigger promptly, speed will develop soon enough in time; speed can't be forced. And, I also agree that you need to ignore the added concrete in front of you and shoot those 21 yarders just like you are doing the singles - same hold, same foot position, wait for the bird to appear, be smooth, and try not to "aim."....Bob Dodd
     
  9. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    I hold middle of the roof from 21, same as 16. I do best when I convince myself to >DON'T< move the gun 'til I read the target and then make a smooth move to it. No big hurry, target can't outrun my shotgun. Last reg. HNCP score I shot was 95 -------FWIW?

    John C. Saubak
     
  10. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Dan, I always like Dan Thome's and Bob Dodd's advice. However, this time it needs a little tweaking. Each of them has already shot more shells than I will in my lifetime. They are used to it and are no longer bothered by small changes. I'm used to it now, so it is unusual if my short yardage handicap scores vary by more than +/-1 bird from singles. Often I shoot a higher score in handicap (now).

    It surely wasn't always the case. When I started again three years ago I had the devil of a time adjusting. Some of it was equipment issues, but most of it was because there were differences, they were noticeable, and they did bother me. When you shoot 5 yards further back you need a little more lead to center your targets, and you need a little more elevation if you want the same bird/bead relationship. For a normal speed shooter, about an additional 1/16" spacer under the comb takes care of the elevation. The changes in lead are not great, maybe half a bird more. Small differences to be sure, but enough to cause a problem for some like me. Now that I am used to the differences, I don't notice them anymore.

    Another thing that helped me was setting my gun up for short yardage handicap, then using the same setup for singles. I know this may sound weird, but the opposite is not true. For the first 6 mos. or so I only shot singles, so by default, that's how my gun got set. Believe it or not, 5 yards is a_lot to a shotshell pattern. You can shoot sloppier from the 16 and still break targets than you can from 21. So if you take some time to practice from 21, then make any small adjustments required to fit your style and what your subconscious wants to see, you will have dialed your gun in and learned to shoot more precisely than you could from the 16. Then when you go back to singles it is a relative cakewalk.

    Regarding hold points. Like you I got a lot of advice, and tried all of it. I've found that I shoot better when I hold no higher tan the top of the trap house and well inside the corners. Usually I hold lower than the top. That let's me pick the bird up sooner and make a better move on target. Believe it or not, when I hold lower I break the target sooner. At a Phil Kiner clinic, Phil told us that when we were having problems picking up targets to hold lower. Still a problem? Hold lower yet. To me that was counter intuitive advice, but it certainly works, at least for me.

    Good luck. you'll find you have less trouble from 21 or 16. Good luck.
     
  11. coyote268

    coyote268 TS Member

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    Thanks a lot guys. I collectively took all your advise and shot my new XT tonight. I didn't do anything spectacular as after 50 rounds I did feel the recoil getting to me. (Greg will get this gun to put a garcoil on it),, but with your advise I starting hitting pretty well with a gun I am not to familiar with yet. Basically what you all said is true, the 21 is pretty much like the 16. With the holds you advised me of, I was able to get on the target faster. Don't you love it when they just make a big white puff. Anyway, thanks to all.
    Dan
     
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