1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Gun mount question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by lel4866, Aug 13, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. lel4866

    lel4866 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    106
    I'm a new shooter (63 years old). I have a Weatherby SA-08 semi-auto 28". After shooting around 30 rounds of trap, I had sore cheekbone, where I push the stock up against the bone (the zygomatic bone according to anatomy websites).

    I recently took a lesson from a certified instructor that mostly shoots sporting clays. He told me to mount the gun more along my lip line, rather than pushing it up against the cheek bone. Other than that, he thought my gun fit fine (I'm the classic 5'9" 180lb, so everything made for the "average" person tends to fit me).

    While this has definitely cured the soreness, I was wondering what some of you more experienced trap shooters thought of the suggestion. Do you think this is the proper/best way to solve the sore cheek problem?
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,406
    The standard fix is to adjust the pitch by placing a washer or two on the top screw of the butt pad between the pad and the stock. It's called increasing the negative pitch. HMB
     
  3. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,328
    Location:
    S-E PA
    I would suggest you contact a stock maker/fitter.

    We don't do it very much here in the USA, but in Europe and most of the other 'shooting' countries the FIRST thing you do is have a gun fitted to you. As you say you are 'average' in size and we tend to make do with that in a shotgun.

    A properly fitted shotgun solves a world of issues - from comfort (sore cheeks, recoil effects, etc.) to point of impact, to success in hitting targets.

    Said differently, have the shotgun made to fit you, rather than contorting yourself to fit the gun...

    You can check this yourself. Either in front of a mirror or with a good friend. Be CERTAIN, CERTAIN, CERTAIN you have an UNLOADED FIREARM. you are going to mount the UNLOADED firearm and either look at yourself in a mirror, or have the friend look down the barrel from the muzzle end (like I said - good friend & UNLOADED firearm).

    The trick is to mount the gun with your eyes closed...

    Then open your eyes and check your alignment with the barrel/beads/action/etc.

    A gun that fits will give a perfect sight picture when mounted this way, if you need to move the gun to get that picture the gun does not fit you.
     
  4. Tech Writer Jeff

    Tech Writer Jeff Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    153
    1. I disagree that it's necessary to shut your eyes to determine good "static" stock fit (part of which is proper eye position on the rib centerline).

    2. Even if you pass that test, the "dynamic fit" of the stock (i.e., what happens when you're actually shooting the gun) may still far from optimum. This is where the Original Poster (lel4866) is having problems.

    3. I would venture to say that the lel4866 has a couple of "dynamic fit" problems:
    a) the SA-08 is only a 6-lb or 6.75-lb gun.
    b) it is equipped with only a skinny little, excessively-sloped field stock where the comb is rather sharp in profile. Even if it passes the "eyes shut" test, a sharp, sloping comb in a lightweight gun like that is not the best choice for large numbers of targets like Trapshooting.

    That's my opinion.
     
  5. lel4866

    lel4866 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    106
    Thanks for the answers so far. Let me simplify my question...

    Do you push the comb of your stock tight up under your cheek bone (zygomatic bone)? Is this the proper position?
     
  6. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,328
    Location:
    S-E PA
    TWJ,

    While I agree that there can be a difference between 'static' and 'dynamic' fit (your terms), I feel comfortable saying that if the 'static' fit is off, then the 'dynamic' fit will almost always be off as well.

    I offered the test as a quick and dirty way to check for decent gun fit.

    Your description of the gun's stock reinforces my position that the gun needs to be properly fit.

    -

    lel4866,

    Your new question is a bit more specific, so I will try to give a more precise answer.

    First, the gun needs to be held firmly, or else you will experience 'slap' - if there is any kind of space between the stock and your cheek it's gonna hurt.

    Have some one put their fist on your shoulder and push - compare this to what happens if they hold their fist a few inches off and punch.

    This being said, neither do you want a 'death grip' on the gun either.

    I stand by the recommendation about a stock fitter. If you cannot get a comfortable shooting position without some form of contortion something is not right. If the stock does not naturally come to your cheek - if you have to grip the stock tightly to have no slap - it does not fit you correctly.
     
  7. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,900
    Location:
    FL
    Although I am not familiar with your gun I suspect it has a field type stock. As the gun recoils the tapered comb is driven into your cheek. A parallel combed (trap) stock along with a proper fit, especially pitch, should help. Marc
     
  8. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    3,327
    Location:
    Oregon
    It's hard to fit a gun to someone that has yet to establish a consistant gun mount. Your eye is the rear site, so it has to be consistantly positioned for any consistancy in breaking targets. This is one of tha advantages of a midbead, to check that your eye position is correct. If you don't mount your cheek firmly on the comb, if it hard to get a consistant mount. IMO, you don't have to have the comb pressing on your cheek bone for a consistant mount. The key is being consistant. Practice mounting your gun at home. Once you are doing the same every time, then consider if there needs to be some changes to the gun. If you are going to use this gun mainly for trap, consider adding some moleskin to the comb, which will address a couple issues. It will raise your POI, and soften your cheek mount. Mark
     
  9. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,328
    Location:
    S-E PA
    Oregunner opened the 'can of worms' when he mentioned the mid-barrel bead... SOOOOOO...

    IF a gun is properly fitted, it will ALWAYS come to the same point when mounted. If this is the true and proper position for the eye - barrel alignment, then the gun does not need a mid bead - NOR A FRONT BEAD.

    These are merely devices to confirm that the eye and barrel are correctly aligned, if we get that every time from a properly fitted gun, then there is no need for the beads. The beads then serve only as a distraction for the eyes when trying to see the target (can you say 'checking the barrel?')

    Said differently the beads serve to help us contort ourselves to fit the gun rather than having the gun fit us.

    :)
     
  10. Tech Writer Jeff

    Tech Writer Jeff Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    153
    So, HSLDS . . . we can assume that you have removed both beads from every Trap gun you own?
     
  11. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,328
    Location:
    S-E PA
    Actually, yes I have...
     
  12. dverna

    dverna Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,717
    Listen to marc. That is your problem.

    The bead discussion is a pissing contest and has no affect on your issue.

    Don Verna
     
  13. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,572
    "Do you push the comb of your stock tight up under your cheek bone (zygomatic bone)? Is this the proper position?"

    I can't tell if anyone actually addressed this question. But yes, you are supposed to have the comb locked into your zygomatic arch. Anything else will give you an inconsistent mount for trap.

    However, the discussion about field stocks is relevant. If you have a field stock, with lots of drop at the comb and more at the heel, it will probably beat the hell out of you as the comb tends to recoil into your face. It gets worse with bad gun fit, otherwise, because you'll get a sideways slap as well.

    This is my understanding.

    Danny
     
  14. Oregunner

    Oregunner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    3,327
    Location:
    Oregon
    He is a new shooter, average size, and is shooting a generic sized field grade gun. People have been successfully been shooting generic sized shotguns for decades. It may take a little while of him fitting himself to the gun, instead of the gun being fitted to him, until he is ready to start modifying his equipment. Money well spent would be to buy this book. Mark

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,673
    To answer your question, the recommendation by the sporting clays shooter
    is a popular way to mount a gun for sporting clays, but not for trap.
    A solid mount is needed for trap because the gun has to be moved rapidly from an immobile position to an unknown point. In sporting clays, the flight of the target is known, and the gun is moved smoothly to that point -generally
    more with the hands than the body. For most shooters, the cheek doesn't
    contact the stock until right before the shot is fired.
     
  16. Boxer's1

    Boxer's1 TS Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    34
    Dmarble, to answer you question direct. I prefer to mount the gun right with my checkbone right above the stock. And as tight as i can get it. But that is my preference maybe not all shooters mount like that. But, i beleive if ur looking for the txt book answer it would be mount it under the check bone.
     
  17. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,144
    opinions vary too tight a mount takes away from the smoothness of your gun movement.
     
  18. lel4866

    lel4866 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    106
    I really appreciate all the comments. My take aways are:

    1) Yeah, probably should mount the gun firmly up against the cheek bone...but not too firmly.

    2) Now that other people point it out, simple geometry shows that as my field stock moves back on recoil, its going to hit my cheek bone, whereas something like a monte carlo shape won't. I'm a tinkerer and pretty good with wood/plastic, so I think I'll start to mess with some "prosthetics" to add to my existing comb too see if I can get something a little better.

    3) I ordered The Stock Fitter's Bible.

    4) I can see how this might go down the slippery slope of obsession...
     
Similar Threads
  1. m70win
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,107
  2. Joey  S.
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    2,203
  3. 635 G
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    1,909
  4. dhip
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    1,821
  5. butcher
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    1,680
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.