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gun malfunction during round

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by code5coupe, May 8, 2009.

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  1. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    Saw an interesting question on the shotgunworld forum:
    If you have a gun malfunction during a round of ATA trap, how much time are you allowed to fix the issue? Or, can you make up the rest of the targets in that round later?
     
  2. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    I believe (not having the "book" top refer to) that the squad can wait 5 min. for a fix to be affected, otherwise is catch with the squad on the next trap or off to the make-up traps. Someone will be along to quote the book.

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  3. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    I just pulled up the online rule book. There is a mention of "Broken Gun" in the index, page 31, but on page 31 is a discussion of the failure to fire rules and gun malfunctions. There were no other matches to "Broken Gun" found in a search of the pdf file.

    I believe that the time limit you list is commonly used as a rule of the club hosting the shoot, and is not an explicit ATA rule in the book. A similar situation arises often in deciding how long a squad may wait for a missing member. The hosting club has considerable latitude in deciding how to handle situations such as delays for broken guns, defective ammunition, missing shooters, and the like, so long as those rules are clearly published. Most often I see them listed in the shoot program.
     
  4. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    For a "minor" malfunction about 2-3 minutes. Anything more and the shooter will have to make up the the targets on his own. It kind of falls under the disrupting the harmony rules.

    Eric
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    "John", who is just about to enter his first registered event and has read the rulebook in preparation asked me about it this morning and and here's what I wrote:

    "John , what you describe, a gun breaking mid-round, happens now and then and though the rulebook covers some aspects of it, it leaves a good deal of judgement up to shoot management because they best know what's appropriate on that day, with that gun, and in light of their facilities, what's going to be the way to do it.

    The overriding rule is that if you start a sub-event you have to finish it; any un-shot targets are scored lost. But if, say, this happens on the third (of four 25-birders) sub-events, you don't have to start the next sub-event; you would be scored on the birds hit out of 75.

    There an informal understanding that if you can fix the gun in five minutes or under you can just drop back to the benches, do the repair, and come back to your waiting squad. But this is up to shoot management and the scorer or line supervisor may need the squad to just keep going and then you will have to pull out and finish the event on a makeup trap, usually the practice trap, where you will have priority over others who may be waiting and you can't shoot with them; you have to shoot alone or with another makeup competitor. There, you will shoot in the same position as you started the event, and will want to make sure the scoresheet is clear who you are, what squad you were on, and what you are doing. If you shot 10, you will start with shot 11 and continue with the next until you are done. Many shooters with gun or shell problems just pull out anyway rather than make the squad wait for them (especially if someone is straight;) other do not and it's generally OK with everyone.

    I congratulate you on reading the rulebook before you start registering targets; you are in a very small, select minority. It's a good idea to keep the rulebook in your bag since you know what's in it and where and you will surely soon squad with people who know neither.

    I hope you have a long and rewarding trapshooting career, keeping on mind that it is, after all, a game and the point is to have fun. If you have any other questions as time goes on, email me or John Hiter above, or just ask someone at a shoot who seems to know - but keep the rulebook with you anyway.

    Yours in Sport,

    Neil"
     
  6. higun

    higun Member

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    Look at the last sentence of this rule. I think that in the instance in which a shooter has had a catastrophic failure that prevented him from completing a sub-event, the targets from that sub-event would not be scored. His score would be reported through his last completed sub-event.


    " When a contestant voluntarily withdraws from, or is otherwise
    disqualified, and takes no further part in a sub-event after having fired at
    1 or more targets of a sub-event and does not fire at all the targets in the
    sub-event, the referee/scorer shall rule all targets not fired upon “LOST”
    targets and they shall be scored and reported accordingly. When the
    shooter is prevented by reasons beyond his/her control from completing
    a sub-event, the scores for that partial sub-event shall not be recorded"
     
  7. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Highgun -

    I think that last sentence is intended to cover things like weather or other conditions that cause a shoot to be stopped by management. Things that are really outside the control of the shooter.

    A broken gun might not be within the control of the shooter, but being able to finish is. Use another gun or fix the one that is broken. I've never been to a trapshoot at which there was not a gun (in most cases many guns) available to someone who was having trouble with theirs.

    Scott
     
  8. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    That's why I own a Pgun.
     
  9. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Barry!!

    ;-)

    I can swap triggers in 15 seconds, not counting the time to waddle back to my shooting bag...

    Jim C
     
  10. RogerNRA

    RogerNRA TS Member

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    I had a "breakdown" during the GAH last year. None of the squad was shooting well and I ask if they wanted me to go to the make-up trap or I had another gun in the truck I could retrieve in a few minutes. They all said, "Go get the gun." I did and was back on the line as fast as a 70 year old can. Had all or someone in the squad been in a run for the trophy I may not have asked. Another plus for Sparta, as you are parked close enough to get a gun and get back quickly............Roger
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Barry,

    TOUCHE', me too ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    There is some latitude in interpreting exactly what the terms "voluntarily withdraw" and "prevented by reasons beyond his control" mean. I have seen these terms defined differently by different club managers and in one instance, differently by the same manager at different times.

    A broken gun, becoming sick, receiving an emergency message or somebody backing into your automobile in the parking lot are situations that require some interpretation of these terms. And, different people will interpret the terms differently.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Too bad the ATA does not clarify these rules, so members can be treated fairly. HMB
     
  14. higun

    higun Member

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    Pat

    I suspect that you and I are of similar minds regarding this rule. Common sense should be the determining factor in making a judgment.

    As a member of shoot management at our local club I have been called upon twice to make a decision where this rule applies.

    In the first instance there was a shooter who was having a horrible day. He was shooting way below his average and said that he intended to quit in mid-round. I advised him that since there were no mitigating circumstances allowing him to quit during a sub-event he would have to accept lost targets for the remainder of that sub-event.

    In the second instance there was a shooter whose gun developed a mechanical malfunction mid way through the 3rd sub-event. He shoots a very specialized shotgun and it would have been unfair to require him to complete the sub-event with unfamiliar equipment. I ruled that he could stop and only the targets from his previous sub-events were recorded.

    In both instances I felt that each was treated fairly and in accordance of the rules.

    Why do they call it “common sense” when it is such an uncommon trait?
     
  15. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    HMB -

    You probably should be spending less time on the computer, there are hundreds of trap machines out there that could have the oscillator turned off that you should be checking on.

    Scott
     
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