1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Gun Doubling, Perazzi, Causes and Solution??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Charlie Becknell, Mar 12, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Charlie Becknell

    Charlie Becknell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,618
    I have a friend that has an old Comp I Perazzi, that he shoots for Sporting Clays, that has had recurrent problems with the gun doubling. I can discern a minute separation between the shots, but for recoil purposes, it "doubles". He has had the trigger evaluated by two of the best gunsmiths in the business and nothing really has been found.

    1. One of our good friends has suggested that he is "trapping the trigger".


    2. After he had two "doublings" in a row , I shot the gun on about 5 pairs and the gun never doubled on me. ( It was funny watching the chief of all flincher's trying to pull the trigger, and I DID BREAK TWO OR THREE).


    3. We then pulled his trigger out and he shot it (pull trigger) in my MX 2000/8 while I used my double release. His trigger functioned flawlessly in my gun.


    4. While I was looking at his gun, I noticed the "housing" or whatever you call the steel that houses the trigger had two cracks on both sides of the "button" that locks the trigger into gun. Could this be the culprit?


    I am looking for suggestions and solutions. When the gun "knocks the dog snot" out of him, he does not shoot as well. I need to try to beat him while he is on his "A" game. Besides, it is embarrassing to get beat with your own gun.

    Charlie
     
  2. sptnclays

    sptnclays Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    574
    Location:
    Grosse pointe farms Mi
    Your friend may not be holding the gun tight to his shoulder. The recoil allows the gun to move so much as to bump the trigger on his finger to set it off the second time.
    He either needs to consciously hold the gun tighter into his shoulder or lengthen the stock.
     
  3. Ted K.

    Ted K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    507
    Location:
    Tiburon, CA
    A Perazzi with a selectable trigger WILL double the first time it is fired after the barrel selector is moved manually unless the safety is cycled on and off. I know this is true with internally selectable Perazzi triggers, but I am not sure it also applies to externally adjustable Perazzi triggers.

    Useful footnote: if you use snap caps or otherwise want to fire both barrels on a Perazzi without a loaded shell in the first barrel, pull the trigger, then cycle the safety on and off, and then pull the trigger again. The second trigger pull will fire the second barrel. This method avoids the need to thump the stock on the floor, etc. to inertially arm the second trigger. This works whether or not the trigger is selectable.

    It also works on a Citori.

    Ted K.
     
  4. Charlie Becknell

    Charlie Becknell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,618
    Thanks. He , however, does not havef a selectable trigger.

    Chalrie
     
  5. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,771
    Location:
    Rapid City SD
    The cracks certainly are not helping the situation.

    I have to assume that the butt-stock bolt was too tight at one point, and the constant torque "pulling" action back has caused the cracks. THAT needs to be fixed!!!!!

    A main cause for doubling is the Inertia Block (#158) is not or cannot move rear-ward enough during firing through recoil to pull itself off the first sear, and then returns to battery slipping the Tree (#157) under the remaining sear.

    To double is to push up the rear of both sears simultaenously. A proper gun only pushed UP one sear at a time.

    Another cause (and I am curious if it matters which barrel is selected first) is where the front of the sear, where it engages the hammer, may have (1) worn/broken the sear to a point or poor engagement contact, (2) worn the hammer as well, and/or (3) some debris is in this vicinity.

    I have seen many Perazzi triggers here that have had part of the hammer break off under the rear most part where the leaf spring sits. I have never found any of these broken-off pieces, but they were there at one time.

    Your buddy needs to get that to a PERAZZI GUNSMITH; someone who knows that gun intimately, not just "some" gunsmith.

    IMHO.


    whizwhite_2008_02033.jpg


    Whiz
     
  6. larryjk

    larryjk Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    519
    sptnclays has half of the problem I found on doubling. Fisrt is not holding a "normal" tight gun to the shoulder and second, if the shooter squeezes the trigger on a shotgun instead of pulling or slapping it. If you just squeeze the trigger and the gun recoils back, you actually let up on the trigger and pull the trigger again; hench doubling, but not simultaneous, but a very close following pair.
     
  7. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,859
    Has he recently changed his recoil pad?????? I've seen this by the gun bouncing off the shoulder.. thus fan firing.. The fact you hear 2 shots.. very close together makes me wonder..

    The trigger in a different gun.. with a different shooter is problem free??? After looking at what Whiz suggested.. I'd look at the shooter and his recoil pad..
     
  8. Charlie Becknell

    Charlie Becknell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,618
    Whiz has identified the crack area. two linear fractures , one on each side of the "button". The gunsmith he used is a Perazzi expert. I do not know how long the cracks have been there, I noticed them yesterday after we were fooling with the trigger. When the gunsmith looked at his gun previously the cracks may not have been there ( that was over a year ago). He has repeated problems with this gun doubling over the years. His triggers have leaf springs.

    He shot his 20 gauge Perazzi today and never had a single problem. Also, he used his pull trigger in my MX 2000/8 yesterday to finish out the round, again, no doubling.

    I really appreciate your help. I have tried to get him to shoot his MX 3 with 34 inch barrels but he prefers not to shoot it since he doesn't shoot it well. Well, so much for my advice. I don't care for the 20 gauge, he shoots it too well.
     
  9. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,859
    Charles... Have you tried another trigger in his gun???? I regularly keep 3 triggers in my bench kit.. If a friends trigger is in question.. and I see nothing wrong..I try the other 3 triggers... If they all work perfect..it's his trigger.. If they all have the same problem.. it's something else..

    You might also look at the thumb safety hitting the inertia block.. but that would be a consistent problem.. Not a now and then problem..

    Also.. I'd like to know the names of who you brought it to.. You can DM me if you don't want to post it... And.. how soft is his recoil pad??? Many times I've found those 1" plus..pads to be very bouncey..

    I'd love to hear the end of this story.once the answer is found.. All Good.. Mike
     
  10. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,959
    With out working on the gun and seeing the shooter this is my guess. Not holding the gun tight or the gun bouncing from recoil. Just a test putting a thin kickeez on the gun may help with recoil pad bounce. Adding about 6 oz to the stock may help as well but no help to the balance. If most people do not have the problem just your friend then he will have to learn how to shoot the trigger.

    By the way I squeeze a trigger and I never have any guns double on me unless there is something wrong with the trigger. I do believe that I do release completely as soon as the trigger breaks.

    Joe
     
  11. Charlie Becknell

    Charlie Becknell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,618
    Mike, Joe,

    He has tried different triggers , which also double. He borrowed Randy Ross' trigger and it doubled. He uses a kickeez Pad. He has never had this problem in his 20 gauge, hunting gun, trap guns (2), or his MX3. I belive it has to be something with the gun, not the trigger.

    Charlie
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page
armi perazzi mt6 double fire
,

causes of doubling shotgun

,
double fire on perrazzi mx2000
,
perazzi both barrels fire at once
,

perazzi doubling

,
perazzi fire control
,

perazzi trigger doubling

,

shotgun doubling