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Gun Clubs Can Survive If They Try

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by phirel, Feb 16, 2008.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Ted- I fully agree with you.

    Pat Ireland
     
  2. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the clubs should go to the big box stores and ask for donations and goods to help put on these shoots at the clubs. After all this is what the stores are relying on for their income. The shooting sportsman. Somewhere in there should be a break some place. Bill
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Big box stores have just recently started being somewhat less than friendly to shooters.

    Dick's has removed the discount on flats and raised prices. Sportsmen's Warehouse is 10 dollars a bag higher than my mom and pop local store.

    And I just talked to a guy that paid 65 dollars for a thousand primers at Gander Mountain.

    I told him to take it back and advised him where the mom and pop store was.

    As previously stated, these are clothing stores that put out bait in the form of usable items.

    HM
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    MrkSLC- Very few. The ones that do show a reasonable profit on their investment do so with the help of non shooting activities.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Any gun club that thinks it doesn't need to "show a profit" is in decline. By example, if you buy a new Pat Trap and voice calls you will spend close to $10,000. If you expect that equipment to last 2.5 million targets, that is 100,000 rounds. That means you should put 10 cents in a saving account for every round you throw so that if the interest you earn can keep up with inflation you will have enough money to replace the setup.

    You should look at all your club's facilities and equipment the same way and add those replacement costs into each round. You should also have a legal/engineering fund to fight lawsuits or renew permits. You should also be making some extra money to promote shooting and gain new members.

    Even a nonprofit club needs to throw targets at a profit and retain those profits for re-investment at the club for equipment, facilities and new blood.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    JBrooks- I do agree with your idea, but the way I calculate a profit is to consider reserve funds and promotional activities as expenses against the net income. Profit is what is left after these expenses are deducted.

    I also take the term profit another step. If a gun club has a market value of $500,000, primarily land value, and the club shows a net profit of $10,000 but the current CD rate is 5%, they actually lost $15,000. I view profit/loss based on return of the value of the investment. Very few clubs could demonstrate a profit based on the way I calculate profit.

    There is another dimension that supports gun clubs. When a club needs something, there are many shooters who will donate $ to get what the club needs. The North Carolina association did not have any funds to build a club house. Many people, under Ken Duncan's leadership, worked to convince many other people that they should give the association some money. The new club house is now under construction.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Pat,

    How much money is in the endowment to maintain the new clubhouse?

    Unfortunately, most gun clubs charge what the members want to pay rather than what it actually costs to put targets in the air.
     
  8. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately J Brooks, you are right on with that statement. Shoot well and often, Bob
     
  9. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    JBrooks' comment is unfortunately more of the norm. There are many clubs that keep round prices artificially lower than the cost of goods sold for a segment, if not all of their membership by subsidizing the loss from annual dues. Suggest that trapshooting should be run like a business - no surprise to many of you, the typical rebuttal is that trapshooting is for "fun" - its not a business.

    AA - you bring up many good points - but too many NFP clubs are run like good 'ole boys clubs.

    Jay
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    JBrooks- I would have to look at the club house and spend about 20 minutes to answer your question about the reserve required to maintain the club house. Just one example, if the roof is covered with 30 square of asphalt shingles that have a 20 year life span and have been up for 5 years, using my local costs, I would estimate that (30 X $75 / 15 = $150) that $150 per year should be deducted as a required reserve from the NOI each year for the roof. This does not mean that the club should escrow $150 per year for a roof, it is simply the amount I would deduct from the annual income to calculate the profit the club makes.

    I do not agree with some of the above posters that a gun club should operate under the same constraints that are applied to a for profit business. If they were, most gun clubs would close, sell their assets and invest the money in a CD that pays a 5% yield. I do make a comfortable living evaluating both businesses and real estate. Step one in my process is to determine the current use of the property is the one that will generate the greatest profit. Few gun clubs would make it to step two in my analysis.

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. shotgunfun

    shotgunfun TS Member

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    Many of the gun clubs we go to there are mostly people there playing cards......maybe they should start charging rent on the chairs.....lol. Just kidding!!! don't stone me!

    However, for those who do play a great deal of cards and drink the free coffee......remember, that isn't really free and it is costing them for you to enjoy the club.....so...........maybe the club dues should be raised rather than the target fees.......or what about non shooting memberships?? For those that like to play cards?? or what about when you pay the membership you pay for 10 rounds of trap at that time, At least there would be shooters! Or what about Buy 10 rounds get one free Seems to me there would be several ways to increase #'s of shooters at the local clubs and reward those who do shoot.

    Just thoughts
     
  12. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    If I were to run the trap side of my club like a true business, our rounds would cost about $7.00 instead of $3.50. All areas of the club are supplemented with membership monies. We took in more than we spent, so we were in the black. Not by much but the doors are still open!

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  13. Bomber61

    Bomber61 Member

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    Many clubs say they are running in the black after their cost, but once you look at liabilities,possibile EPA stewartship programs and you need money in the bank to fight city hall. But how do you get this message accoss to guys who think you just come out to shoot and go home?

    After becoming president of our gun club the decision for me at the end of the day has been, shoot for $4.00 per round or save the club and raise the cost of targets.

    This thread is was Trapshooters.com is all about.

    Gary
     
  14. pfofml

    pfofml Member

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    I have been shooting for 35 years,and it has been my experience that most shooters do not have a reasonable idea of the true costs of keeping a shooting fasility open.

    The survival of gun clubs, both for profit and "non profits", is for the most part, based on income. That statement is a no brainer! To generate this income, after spending $100,000 or more to buy land, equipment, buildings, etc., customers must be found who have the financial means to purchase the clubs' services.

    That being said, I do not believe that most shooters fully understand the true cost of services provided by shooting facilities. When taking into account the cost of raw materials, labor, returns on investments, insurance, and deprecia-tion of equipment, $8 per round of 25 targets seems reasonable to me.

    Shooters need to be informed about these costs so that they can make informed decisions about their financial responsiblities for the future of trapshooting.

    Peter Falk III
     
  15. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE: We cant treat the new people who show up as outsiders because if we do they wont come back

    This is number 1.
     
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