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Gun Blowup - Shot Weight

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Unsingle, Dec 23, 2008.

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  1. Unsingle

    Unsingle Member

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    I think barrel blowups have more to do with the weight of the shot than the base wad moving forward in the barrel. That is one reason it is so hard to determine what caused the catastrophe. The evidence is all over the field.

    Many years ago, I worked at a rock quarry. My job was to drill 3-inch diameter shot holes, 25 feet deep, and load them with dynamite and ammonia nitrate. If you didn’t put anything on top of the powder, the explosion would simply go puff. But, put 12 inches of lime dust on top of the powder, and the full force of the explosion would go sideways and fracture the rock.

    I think it works the same way in a gun barrel. If a lightweight wad gets stuck in the barrel, the next shot probably pushes the light wad out without a problem. But, put a double load of shot (I don’t know how you could do it) in the shell, and the pressure is so high that the barrel has to give. My guess is the thinner the barrel, the more likely it is happen. Something has to cause the pressure to skyrocket to have the barrel blow up. Nothing spikes pressure more than pushing more weight down the barrel.

    Just an idea from an old quarry man.
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Larry/Oh - Several tests seem to disprove your idea. If a loaded 20ga shell lodged in the 12 ga barrel will not blow the barrel, how could a little snow do it?

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I can assure you that extra shot loaded into a shell under some circumstances will blow a gun. Reminds me of the time in 1964 that I saw a shooter launch a barrel off a Winchester Fiberglass barreled semi-auto over a traphouse. He too thought if some shot was enough then more is better!!
     
  4. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    If a hull were somehow double loaded with powder and shot, would it be possible/probable that the second powder load would migrate downward among the first shot load, and cause an explosion?

    Anyone ever studied this or heard of the phenomenom?

    Thanks,
    Dennis
     
  5. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Unsingle

    "Nothing spikes pressure more than pushing more weight down the barrel."

    Except maybe an obstruction that will not move or is fused to the barrel.

    Bob Lawless
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    You can not fit a double charge of lead into the shell. You can fit a larger than normal, how much I do not know because I did not take the shell apart and weigh it. If a person is careless about their reloading or does not give enough respect to what he chambers, they are asking for trouble sooner or later. Merry Christmas, Bob
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Lots of guesses about this mishap. Could the person have mistakenly dipped the base of the wad in super glue just before loading the shell? This could elevate chamber pressure.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. Shootsandbagger

    Shootsandbagger TS Member

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    I don't under stand when I have made a mistake the shell will not crimp. Please tell me How you can get a double shot charge in a shell and crimp it. Steve
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Steve,

    You have to forget to put the wad in, that gives you extra room in the hull. HMB
     
  10. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Maybe someone dropped a shell into his bag or coat pocket or picked one up off the ground.

    Seems to me it happens more often than not in a K-80, the Barrells are thinner at the shell point of drop in in chambert han in other guns. When I worked for Timken Roller Bearing in the Railroad Double GG Division we had bearings crack that were made of German Krupp Steel, only happened on the Krupp Steel. They never made it into the field to be installed on Locomotives, was detected at inspection or during grinding process by guys like me that were grinders on the centerless grinders. Does Kreighoff use German Krupp Steel?



    Gary Bryant
    Dr,longshot
     
  11. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Gary, Thyssen steel and Krupp steel merged about 10 years ago to form ThyssenKrupp AG. I would think that Kreighoff uses their steel. Their the 2nd. largest steel co. in the world with sales of 70 billion +. They never had this problem when they were building WW2 railroad guns.
     
  12. antidote

    antidote TS Member

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    What a bunch of morons..........
     
  13. hdskip

    hdskip Member

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    It must be back lash from the presidential election! Who knows? I've never seen so much wild speculation.
    Gary
     
  14. 3 wood

    3 wood TS Member

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    Unsingle, you are right. Weight is a critical part of this problem.
    Hawhes, a double charge of shot and a double charge of powder CAN be loaded into a shell WITHOUT a wad. I have seen it. I also saw a shell from the same case by a reloader who insisted he was very experienced with 2 wads in it AND crimped! He also had a very blown up shotgun. It can and has happened. Reloader error!
    3 wood
     
  15. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I worked for Timken's in 1961 and not all Krupp Steel bearings failed inspections with cracks I would guess about 10% of them did, Timkens then discontinued using German Krupp Steel, this steel was used in DOUBLE GG Diesel Locomotive bearings, these are large bearings. Some steel is harder than others and develop cracks, I seen it first hand.

    If you look at a K-80 Barrell at the breech where you install the shell in the chamber it is not as thick as a Perrazzi, Kolar, Browning, Beretta, just to name a few.

    Don't know if it makes a difference, just a thought.

    Maybe that is the reason for the merger, to manufacture better steel.

    Timken shut down the Railroad Division in Columbus Ohio, located at Cleveland ave and Fifth Ave about a block south, the corner location was the small bearing division, about 800-1,000 feet south of 5th Ave where the large gate facing Cleveland was. Shut down several years ago and then tore down the buildings, now it is vacant land.


    This is just a thought that crossed my mind, just my humble opinion.

    Maybe Kreighoff should copy the railroad guns, the Germans had a hell of a long barrell on those railroad guns.



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  16. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    it could be more of a heat treat problem with the steel cracking, maybe it was not drawn back enough.



    tony
     
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