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Gun Blow Ups: Another Urban Myth Or???

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Chango2, Feb 13, 2012.

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  1. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Reading the thread about L.B.'s K-80 blow up at Triple B's last Friday, piqued an almost forgotton conversation from a long time ago: A local So-Cal Gunsmith, who had a very mixed reputation, but a very self-assured style, told me that it is possible that shells can have pressure curves increased to a dangerous level IF they are using ball powder. He said that if such loads ride for a long time in a vehicle, the consant bouncing/vibrations, e.g. in a 3/4 ton truck, say over a month or two, would change the characteristics of the charge and could create voids and powder migration that would/could contribute to the causing of a dangerous pressure spike...particularly if the load were "hot" to begin with.

    Again, I don't know if he were blowing smoke or that this were some obscure or not so obscure SAAMI recommendation. Some who reload for rifle of high powdered categories, for example 7mm Remington Mag, have told me it is best to use sensible care (that is, don't shake a round a whole lot) with rounds loaded with long stick type of powders for that reason.

    Gentlemen and Ladies: "Start your keyboards", I would like to know.
     
  2. rhett1977

    rhett1977 Member

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    Sounds like you're just talking about powder migration issues. Will it cause a gun to blow up? I don't think so but you could always try it and reports back to us
     
  3. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    It would have to be proven to me, sounds unrealistic
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Some smokeless powder granuales have a coating that regulates the burn rate. This coating if removed in the above manner could cause a dangerous situation. HMB
     
  5. Leo

    Leo Well-Known Member

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    Look at what ammo goes through in regular life. Powder is made somewhere. It gets transfered around the plant in bulk. it gets transfered and packaged. Then the packages get palletized and loaded in Semi trailers that are driven in the heat/cold/dry/wet to a ammo plant or a warehouse. It gets handled there off the trucks and warehoused again. It gets taken out of storage and poured into some production line equipment where it gets installed in shells or cartridges. The finishing of the cartridges or shells has pressure applied on some instances and is loose in others. Now the cartridges are packaged up and palletized again, warehoused, loaded in hot/cold/dry/wet semi trailers and hauled long distances to a retailers warehouse. Stored in hot/cold/wet/dry conditions until they are again hauled to the store where you buy them.

    After all of this, how much damage do you think you can do riding them around in your truck for a couple weeks until you get to shoot again?
     
  6. BL350

    BL350 TS Member

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    Dear Chango2,
    When ball powders first came on the scene in shotgun ammo (Winchester)excessive vibration caused the powder to migrate into the open flash hole and some incidents occured. THATS when the covered flash hole primers came out! In my 61 years of shooting shotguns, I have only been present once at a range where a shotgun blew up. Man was reloading 23 grains of Red Dot with an ounce & 1/8 of shot....after about 5 shots.....The 1100 barrel separated and went past the trap house roof......It can happen, but very likely the explosions are mostly caused by the operator! Check your barrel often and beware of off sounding, low muzzle reports etc. Stuck wads and base wads will bulge shotgun barrels. Seen plenty at the gunsmiths shop, especially screw in choke barrels when the tube backed out enough to catch the wad. LAST YEAR, Had a registered shooter next to me at Bradford gun Club forget to screw in the choke tube and upon firing the first shot....the choke tube ended down range just 20 ft. past the trap house...He immediately ran down range to get his tube!!! The next shooter had his gun up and getting ready to call for a bird when this person is running down range!!!very dumb!!!Operator ERROR!!
    ............... Respectfully Submitted...Ex- Jet Boat Bill
     
  7. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Smokeless Powder 101. Click the link to enter the classroom.

    Wayne
     
  8. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Chuck Hawks, is just another internet parrot that repeats what he hears. He stated smokeless powder only burns, cannot explode. Call Chuck and tell him to read the FBI article link I posted on K80 blows up thread. The article was written by a chemical engineer, and not a firearms opinion writer
     
  9. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Toolmaker,, Chuck specifically stated "does not explode when unconfined"

    Bruce McCord states ....smokeless powder is extremely dangerous when confined...

    Both statements are true. And I thought Chucks article was well written.

    Wayne
     
  10. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Chango2, He is simply making it all up. Ask yourself, on what is he basing these conclusions?
     
  11. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Thanks for the information; that particular gunsmith was later discovered to be a real charlatan around So-Cal. This was years ago, and he is no longer by any means in the sport shotgunning/trapshooting loop. He hurt many people financially. However, he was intelligent, and, perhaps, not all he said was B.S. He was much more knowledgeable than I, certainly, overall, but he also would spew B.S. and my B.S. Meter could be better tuned with a bigger database.
     
  12. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Do we have more guns blowing up or do we have a national web site making us more aware of the problems?

    Have more efficient wads and cases added to the problem?
    How many blow ups are with paper cases?

    Ajax
     
  13. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Rick, you make a valid point about being on a government list for searching on this detonation subject. How I found this FBI info was typing in yahoo "can smokeless powder detonate" A search like this can be considered as someone gaining knowledge on how to detonate something that's easily accessible.
     
  14. 682LINY

    682LINY Member

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    that is why i deadicate many hours each day typeing nonsense searchs to confuse them,,, i think mrskeet and others should take this up to hide there true porpuse
     
  15. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    682LINY , ha ha, Rick has that covered.


    TOOLMAKER 251, I don't think there is any debate that smokeless powder can detonate. The issue is making it detonate in a 12ga shotgun shell.
     
  16. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    People will make up any excuse to try and put the blame someplace other than on themselves especially when it's expensive or makes them look dumb...gun blows up for instance.
     
  17. Ajax

    Ajax Well-Known Member

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    Come on guys, with all the opinions we have on here. Some one should have some on my questions.LOL

    Ajax
     
  18. little gambler

    little gambler Active Member

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    As a varmint hunter, I have ran finished rounds in my tumbler with a teaspoon of brasso to make them look and appear better than new from my Dillon RL550. (This helps by having super clean brass, and when shooting a flat top AR style varmint rig they feed flawless) I've been loading and then tumbling rounds like this for 15 years for centerfire. Never a problem, but then again I'm loading 22 hornet, 221 fireball, 223, and 300 WSM.

    I'm sure the hour or two they spend in there is way more vibration than any round riding around in a pickup truck on any road in america for it's life.
     
  19. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    When cutting open shells, I find that the wad pretty well holds the powder in place. In many shells the powder is formed into a "puck" under the wad, presumably from the pressure of the wad on top of the powder. I don't quite understand how you would end up with a void where the "detonation" might happen.
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    avaldes, did you ever hear a shell bloop? Bloopers are usually caused by poor contact with wad and powder and to a lesser extent not enough powder or covered flash holes!!
     
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