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Green Dot vs Promo/Red Dot

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by GGPOST, Jun 21, 2011.

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  1. GGPOST

    GGPOST Member

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    I could use some imput on Green dot powder. I originally was loading 1 1/8 loads #8, with Downrange 8 pedal DR WJ RPL wads for tappered hulls, Cheddite primers, and using 17.5 gr of Red dot for myself, and just changing powder to green dot for my spouse. We also shoot the same load with straight wall hulls using the new Downrange federal style 8 petal wad which I actually like better. She felt I was putting her at a dis-advantage so I went to Promo to reduce my reload costs and it looks to load the same as the red dot. After the state shoot a few weeks back, she was pretty beat up and I reduced her powder to 16 gr of promo for her. Seems to shoot fine and the recoil has been reduced. Am I doing the right thing here or should I go back to the green dot? Will it burn more consistantly and reduced the felt recoil the same?? I've also read that some wads will reduce recoil with the same shot load and I do have both straight wall and tappered wall hulls available. With the cost of reloading I'd like to stay with the Promo if dropping the powder loads does not make the load inconsistant. Thanks.
     
  2. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    A given payload at a given velocity will recoil the same, regardless of the powder, wads, etc. 1150 fps with 1 1/8 oz is the same recoil energy, no matter what powder, hull, wads, primer, etc. Some people will argue it makes a difference, but I have not seen anyone that could prove it in a blind test. Load Promo to the same velocity, keeping pressures within reason, that you were with Green Dot and have a great time shooting!
     
  3. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    For all practical purposes 1 1/8 ounce of shot going X feet per second is going to have the same recoil no matter what powder you use.

    When you say "just changing powder for my wife" does that mean all you do is switch over using the same bushing if so then your load should be ~ 1145 fps and hers will be ~1000fps in the tapered hulls. That is why hers kicks less not because of the Green Dot.

    By going down in powder with Promo or RedDot for her loads you are recreating the same 1145 vs 1000 fps difference between your loads so hers will again kick less and you can use a single powder.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  4. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    GGPost, I too suggest you try some one oz. loads with promo or red dot for your wife and see how she like them. Try as slow as you can find data for. If they OK fine, if she still finds them abit hard on her try some Win. AA Lite powder, Alliant has one as well, but I don't recall the name right now. These two types of powder will allow you to bring down the speed to 980 fps in a 7/8 oz. load. Somewhere in that range you will find a load she likes. If you keep her happy she will make you happy. So be happy!!!. LOL Break-em all. JEff
     
  5. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    You are saying 71/2's moving at 1250 fps give the same recoil? Wrong. There are all kinds of factory loads at those specs and some will beat the hell out of you while others are pleasant to shoot. I think I have shot enough to make that statement. So please don't insult those who disagree and say powder does not make a difference because it does. So believe what you want and try to convince others but you are wrong.

    Don
     
  6. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    Well Don if it does happen you have just created a brand new law of Physics that countermands Newton's third law and all the current recoil formulas will need to be re-written to include type of propellant and type of wad. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!

    --- Chip King ---
     
  7. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    A simple blind test could easily get to the bottom of the "does the powder determine the recoil" controversy.
     
  8. lancelot

    lancelot Member

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    It's whatever is in your mind. I feel Green Dot procuces a softer recoil.

    On a per shell basis powder cost is not much of a factor.

    Ron Irland
     
  9. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    BIGDON, are you baiting?????
     
  10. CLP101

    CLP101 TS Member

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    I think what your talking about is a real phenomenon. There is measured recoil, and then percieved recoil. Some propellants "spike" more than others. I've seen figures on rifle recoil that show some powders give a broader, slower spike with the same peak recoil. This gives a lower percieved recoil. So, everyone is right. Also remember that the projectile weight includes the weight of the powder charge, wad, and shot charge. So if you use 2 less grains of powder and a lighter wad you will get less recoil at the same velocity and shot charge. Hope that settles things down a little.
     
  11. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Chip try some black Kemen handicap loads and tell me there is no difference. I needed 2 boxes to complete an event, bought then and they kicked like a mule and left me with a bruise on my cheek. Of course I had only shot 1800 targets that week and could only compare them to Nitros.

    You take your laws and theories and I'll judge "felt recoil".

    Don
     
  12. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    "Handicap loads" aren't all the same velocity. Certainly some have more or less recoil than others as should be expected.
     
  13. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I think some guy named Winston had some folks to a blind test on this very subject, and nobody could tell the difference. Not even the people who were 100% sure they would be able to.

    Martin, did you and Devi ever do this test?
     
  14. GGPOST

    GGPOST Member

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    Wow,

    I think there may be some different optinions out there.

    Just to clarify, I either would have to pull the shot bar, change to a smaller bushing, and then reload for her or, leave the shot bar and powder bushing alone, remove the red dot or promo bottle of powder and replace with green dot to reduce recoil. These are the two options I felt would work and found the powder bottle easier to change. I'm a bit new at this but all the reload charts I read show many shot and powder loads for red dot and green dot with the same gr of powder and shot load would produce different muzzle velocities with green dot being lower. I felt the lower muzzle velocity of the green dot would produce a lower recoil.
     
  15. WNCRob

    WNCRob Member

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    A couple of observations...
    Especially for your wife, consider 1 oz of #8.5. Same pellet count as 1 1/8th oz #8's. Great load for 16 yard line and doubles. Quite comfortable load with Red Dot, Clay Dot or Promo. I use a Mod choke @ 16 and it powders targets.
    Promo...if you're using the same powder bushing that you use for Red Dot, there is a very good chance that you are over loading the desired powder charge...which would increase felt recoil. Promo is more dense than Red Dot and each keg must be weighed to see what weight each bushing will reliably drop.

    WNCRob
     
  16. teddy34

    teddy34 TS Member

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    I agree with BIGDON, some powders are much more pleasant to shoot. Green Dot
    and PB are two. It is true that velocity and payload determine total recoil.
    The shape of the recoil curve influences the distribution of the recoil to
    the shoulder. Powders, recoil devices, autos all are bound by the total recoil, but are effective of distributing the total recoil with less of a
    spike of pulse in its curvw. Thanks, Gary Owen
     
  17. v-strom 650

    v-strom 650 Member

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    For those who have tried it where does American Select fit in as far as percieved recoil when compared to Red Dot and Green Dot? For the OP I found that once I got below 16.2 gr of Red Dot/Promo with that primer and wad the loads got a little inconsistant, especially if the temperature was a little cool. Have you considered a recoil reduction device for her gun? Then you could still shoot the same loads (no disadvantage for her) and she would get less beat up; just a thought J. Terre
     
  18. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    GGPost, You missed a third option that alot of shooters like. A second reloader!!! One for your loads and one for hers. Some shooters will have one for singles and one for handicap. Maybe you can work something out for that as well. Its a pain to switch back and forth. Now you "Must" buy a scale to weight your powder drops and your shot drops to make sure they are correct!!!!!!!!!! If you change powders in the same bushings they will change the weight they drop as well. None of the powders drop the same in the same bushing. So you will have to change powders and bushings each time you switch loads from yours to hers. A One oz. load of 8 l/2's at ll50 fps is a super load for the both of you. As said it has the same pellets as l l/8 of #8's. Dont' forget to get a scale and use it. I'll bet you didn't know how far off your shot drops are??? You will be surprised if you have never weighted any. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  19. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    The difference is the burn rate. Slower burning powder will get the same speed as the faster burning powder. The difference is with the slower burning powder the shot is still accelerating at the end of the barrel, giving more of a push recoil, while with the faster burning powder the shot accelerates much quicker, and gives you more of a punch recoil.

    Go with Green Dot.
     
  20. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    This thread makes me wonder how many "push vs shove" people have a chronograph, and actually use it.
     
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