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Green Dot Powder for 20 GA Shells

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by GordonLWilliams, Jan 1, 2013.

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  1. GordonLWilliams

    GordonLWilliams TS Member

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    My 14 year grandson has reloaded our ammo since he was 5 {Never without me in the reloading room} and he keeps 101 Boxes of Winchester AA's {12's} and last year, we started reloading the 20's....using Remington Gun Club, Winchester 209 primers, Claybuster wads and all the years that we have reloaded and myself {25 years}....I have always used Red Dot...even when we reload the .357's...its been Red Dot. He has 88 boxes of the Remington Gun Club {20 GA} loaded using the same forumla, Red Dot, Winchester Primers, Claybusters and the MEC 650 Jr
    reloaders and we use the MEC #20 bushing which gives us the 11.6 grains of Red Dot. He uses a Winchester 1300, CZ USA O/U, Savage O/U and we get his new New England Pardner on the 5th...we use Reclaim Shot, $26 for 25 lbs and all 4 shotguns are 20 GA. He is busting those birds with the 11.6 grains of powder with ease and I'm sure the new New England single shot will do the same. I realize and have the #22 and #24 bushing...so I could use a little more powder if I have too.

    Now...for assistance and/or guidance. We can't find the Red Dot on any shelves, Turners, etc. The gun shop where we bought his new 20 GA...they have the Green Dot for $18.65 a lb which is the best price I have ever seen the Alliant powder. On Page 56 of the Alliant Reloaders Guidance, they are showing GREEN DOT & 3/4 Shot with Remington 209 Primers and using 14.0 grains. Alliant had no figures for the 7/8 Shot {which we use} for the Green Dot. Am I asking for trouble using the Green Dot with the #20 bushing instead of the Red Dot that we have used with NEVER A MISFIRE or HOT LOAD? I told the GS that with the Newton incident that it might be months before we find Red Dot again and we won't be inviting everybody and his brother to go shooting with us. However, we are going to make a exception to my new rule because we have new neighbors and their daughter is the same age as the GS and he asked her if she would enjoy/like to go shooting with us and with him being the Apple of my eye....I will make a exception for him and he was being a gentleman, he showed her the shooting vest{s} and the shotguns recoil pads to absorb the recoil and she's excited...her dad will accompany her when the GS gets his new shotgun Saturday...

    I honestly didn't intend to make this a book length request/statement, but I'm out of my element not using the Red Dot and I need help. Pure & Simple! I thank anyone for input. Happy New Year...
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    If you can find a Hercules Powder reloading guide it lists loads for the 20 guage using green dot powder and 7/8 oz of shot. HMB
     
  3. burtona

    burtona Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
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    172
    20 Ga. receipts for Green dot from the Alliant online load data.



    Gauge Shell Shot Wt Shot
    Type Velocity (fps) Primer Powder Wad Grains Approx. psi Spacers
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Rem 209P Green Dot RXP 20 14 9,960 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,290 Rem 209P Green Dot RXP 20 16 11,300 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Rem 209P Green Dot CB1078-20 14 9,810 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,250 Rem 209P Green Dot CB1078-20 15 10,510 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,200 Win 209 Green Dot WAA 20 14.5 9,940 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,250 Win 209 Green Dot WAA 20 15 10,650 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,200 Win 209 Green Dot CB1078-20 14 9,930 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,250 Win 209 Green Dot CB1078-20 15 10,680 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 Fed 209A Green Dot Versalite 15.5 11,470 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 Fed 209A Green Dot Windjammer 15.5 11,350 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 Fed 209A Green Dot WAA 20 15 10,960 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,155 CCI 209M Green Dot 20S1 14.5 9,100 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 CCI 209M Green Dot 20S1 16.5 9,300 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,200 Win 209 Green Dot CB 1075-20 14 10,300 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,250 Win 209 Green Dot CB 1075-20 14.8 11,100 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,155 Rem 209P Green Dot CB 1075-20 12.4 9,100 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Rem 209P Green Dot CB 1075-20 13.2 9,500 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,250 Rem 209P Green Dot CB 1075-20 14.2 11,100 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,155 Cheddite Green Dot CB 1075-20 12.4 8,600 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Cheddite Green Dot CB 1075-20 13.3 9,600 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,250 Cheddite Green Dot CB 1075-20 14.2 11,200 -


    Gauge Shell Shot Wt Shot
    Type Velocity (fps) Primer Powder Wad Grains Approx. psi Spacers
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Rem 209P Green Dot RXP 20 14 9,960 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,290 Rem 209P Green Dot RXP 20 16 11,300 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Rem 209P Green Dot CB1078-20 14 9,810 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,250 Rem 209P Green Dot CB1078-20 15 10,510 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,200 Win 209 Green Dot WAA 20 14.5 9,940 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,250 Win 209 Green Dot WAA 20 15 10,650 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,200 Win 209 Green Dot CB1078-20 14 9,930 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,250 Win 209 Green Dot CB1078-20 15 10,680 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 Fed 209A Green Dot Versalite 15.5 11,470 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 Fed 209A Green Dot Windjammer 15.5 11,350 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 Fed 209A Green Dot WAA 20 15 10,960 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,155 CCI 209M Green Dot 20S1 14.5 9,100 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 CCI 209M Green Dot 20S1 16.5 9,300 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,200 Win 209 Green Dot CB 1075-20 14 10,300 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,250 Win 209 Green Dot CB 1075-20 14.8 11,100 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,155 Rem 209P Green Dot CB 1075-20 12.4 9,100 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Rem 209P Green Dot CB 1075-20 13.2 9,500 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,250 Rem 209P Green Dot CB 1075-20 14.2 11,100 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,155 Cheddite Green Dot CB 1075-20 12.4 8,600 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Cheddite Green Dot CB 1075-20 13.3 9,600 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,250 Cheddite Green Dot CB 1075-20 14.2 11,200 -



    Gauge Shell Shot Wt Shot
    Type Velocity (fps) Primer Powder Wad Grains Approx. psi Spacers
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Rem 209P Green Dot RXP 20 14 9,960 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,290 Rem 209P Green Dot RXP 20 16 11,300 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Rem 209P Green Dot CB1078-20 14 9,810 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,250 Rem 209P Green Dot CB1078-20 15 10,510 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,200 Win 209 Green Dot WAA 20 14.5 9,940 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,250 Win 209 Green Dot WAA 20 15 10,650 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,200 Win 209 Green Dot CB1078-20 14 9,930 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,250 Win 209 Green Dot CB1078-20 15 10,680 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 Fed 209A Green Dot Versalite 15.5 11,470 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 Fed 209A Green Dot Windjammer 15.5 11,350 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 Fed 209A Green Dot WAA 20 15 10,960 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,155 CCI 209M Green Dot 20S1 14.5 9,100 -
    2 3/4 Federal Plastic Target Shells 7/8 - 1,200 CCI 209M Green Dot 20S1 16.5 9,300 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,200 Win 209 Green Dot CB 1075-20 14 10,300 -
    2 3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells 3/4 - 1,250 Win 209 Green Dot CB 1075-20 14.8 11,100 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,155 Rem 209P Green Dot CB 1075-20 12.4 9,100 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Rem 209P Green Dot CB 1075-20 13.2 9,500 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,250 Rem 209P Green Dot CB 1075-20 14.2 11,100 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,155 Cheddite Green Dot CB 1075-20 12.4 8,600 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,200 Cheddite Green Dot CB 1075-20 13.3 9,600 -
    2 3/4 Remington Plastic Shells (STS) 3/4 - 1,250 Cheddite Green Dot CB 1075-20 14.2 11,200 -
     
  4. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    burtona,

    The effort is much appreciated but that is near unreadable. You have to double space between lines to make it come out right.
     
  5. burtona

    burtona Member

    Joined:
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    Here's a link:
    http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=2&powderid=5&gauge=20
     
  6. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Green Dot has been found to spike high pressures in the 20 GA with 7/8oz. shot. It was the former standby for many years but has been found to have some issues-especially cracking skeet tubes. Beware!!
     
  7. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Blackshear, Georgia
    The last recipe for the 7/8 oz load that I have is 14.5 grains of green dot but was dated 2005. Jackie B.
     
  8. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Mr. Williams, meaning you no disrespect, but where did you find that 20 ga Red Dot recipe? I've been reloading for 45 years, beginning with 20 ga, and all those years it has been common knowledge you don't use fast burning target powders, of which Red Dot is the most notable, in 20 gauge. I can't understand how you came to the conclusion that Red Dot is an acceptable powder for use in 20 gauge. If there is a book recipe for Red Dot in 20 gauge I've been missing it for 45 years.
     
  9. Rufus80

    Rufus80 TS Member

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    Apr 3, 2012
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    In my 2012 alliant guide it does not list green dot with any 7/8 ounce loads in Remington or winchester cases, only 3/4 ounce. Also it does not list red dot. The only loads it mentions for 7/8 ounce green dot loads is for federal cases and it list the pressure at between 11,000 and 11,500.
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Wireguy,

    The 1980 Hercules reloaders' guide has 12 loads listed for red dot powder in a 20 guage shell with 7/8 oz of shot. HMB
     
  11. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    My 1'st edition 1969 Lyman reloading catalogue does not list Red Dot loads in 20GA. I do believe some adventurous souls did use Red Dot in the 20 GA over the years. Some people went over Niagra Falls in a barrel too. Doesn't make 'em real smart-does it??
     
  12. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Thanks hmb, I have never seen or heard of it. I guess that was back in my drag racing years when I wasn't loading. I wonder what the pressures on those loads was.
     
  13. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Wireguy,

    A low of 8500 and a high of 11600. HMB
     
  14. APrice

    APrice Active Member

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    I try not to think about the existence of reloaders like the OP here when I'm standing on the line.
     
  15. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Herco or Unique are the Alliant powder to use in 20 gauge target loads. Unique has always been the standard. By the way, the Hodgdon burn rate chart has Red Dot faster than Bullseye, which is absolutely incorrect. What's up with that?
     
  16. The Stive

    The Stive Member

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    I used green dot for 20 ga reloads in a 20 ga. gun. I went 20/28 when I started
    using tubes in my 12 ga. skeet gun. I do not believe that you would have any
    problems using green dot in a 20 ga. gun. John
     
  17. acorange

    acorange Well-Known Member

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    13.5 to 14gr. of Green Dot makes for a nice 20ga. load but 15gr. of unique seems to shoot softer at the same velocity.
     
  18. GordonLWilliams

    GordonLWilliams TS Member

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    I appreciate the replies....only after the Newton Conn shooting when I told the grandson that we were down to less than a lb of Red Dot and we better start looking and pray that we find some powder. I have never used anything but Alliant since I started reloading 25 + years ago...but always for the .357's and 12 GA Citori. My grandson is the Apple of my eye and I would walk into Hell for him and when we were in the gun shop to look at shotguns, he's shooting the Winchester 1300, Savage 20 O/U, CZ USA 20 O/U and my Citori 12 and he saw this H&R Single shot and I reminded him that his great-grandfather use to shoot one of them on the farm and he asked if he thought he and I would enjoy it and I told him "I thought it would be a blast"....he's only 14 and he said he would go 1/2's with me. We ordered it. $224 out the door and that included the DROS and background check and he gets his new shotgun Saturday {5th}. It was at the gun shop when the guy next to us asked what we reloaded and we told him...RED DOT for everything and he said he likes the Green Dot for his 20 GA. I never thought about our reloads, we have shot 1000's and never had a misfire or hot load but with no Red Dot or Unique on the shelves at WallyWorld, Turners, etc., I had better start looking for replacement powder.

    A buddy tells me...you ought to check out Trapshooters.com and I did and that is why I posted my inquiry. After I noticed the "replies"....I told the Grandson "you aren't shooting those 20's till we check something out"...at 1131 AM this date, I emailed Alliant in Virginia. I told them that I was loading Red Dot, Remington Gun Clubs {20 GA}, Winchester 209 primers, 7/8 oz Reclaimed Shot, with MEC 600 Jr reloaders with a MEC #20 bushing throwing 11.6 grains of powder.

    Less than 30 minutes later...I get a reply from Alliant. In the meantime, I'm looking thru our reloading room because I knew that I had seen/read data regarding reloading the 20's using RED DOT. It was in the Alliant Reloader's Guide for Smokeless Powders in my Browning Citori package {box} which my wife had bought me for a father's day present. I'm reading away....and found it...
    20 GA Remington Shells, RED DOT POWDER, Winchester WWAA20 Wads, 12.0 to 13.0
    grains with 11.500 psi {approx} It also listed other WADS and it had the data for the 3/4 load{s} but since I don't load 3/4....I only wanted the 7/8 data and that was where I got the info to start...I knew that I had seen it and also I went with the opinion from the Gun Shop owner that the Red Dot was a powder that I could use for the new 20 reloads when we first started reloading the 20's

    Back to Alliant...in my email to them...I stated that I was using Remington Gun Clubs, Red Dot with the above info, etc. Alliant stated in part "I did have a 3/4 Red Dot load tested a few years ago. 12 to 12.5 grs gave approx. 1200 fps. We have no recommendation for it with 7/8 oz loads HOWEVER, YOUR 11.8 GR LOAD DOES NOT LOOK OUTRAGEOUS. Your poweder charge is slightly lower than ours for 3/4 oz which stands to reason since you are shooting more shot. It probably a little on the slow side in terms of velocity. The same goes for Green Dot. We only recommend using is with 3/4 oz loads, except perhaps in the Federal Hull.
    I do suggest changing powders and going by our on line data tables. Let me know if you have any additional questions". There was other info in the email from Alliant.

    While waiting for a reply from Alliant...I contacted my NRA President who I have goose hunted with, pig hunted, duck hunted and shoot with and asked about the 1000 + rounds of Red Dot loaded ammo we had reloaded but didn't want to "chuck"....

    I will take the advice from Alliant. I will switch to Unique or the 20/28 but have to find it. After Alliant's position that the 11.6 grains of Red Dot isn't OUTRAGEOUS...I will use up the loaded ones and I do thank the shooters/reloaders that gave me info. I don't know how to use Photobucket.com but I'm at GrandpaofTyler@aol.com and can attach the email from Alliant and the Reloading Data from Alliant that listed the 20 GA Remington's using Red Dot too.

    Happy New Year and Good Shooting.

    Gordon Williams
     
  19. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter that there are loads listed for 20 gauge with Red Dot and Green Dot, they aren't the powders to use. However, you won't blow up your gun by using the Red Dot loads you already have on hand. You are thinking way too much about this situation. Follow the latest books and ignore old books.
     
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