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Green Dot loads?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Charles.F.Phillips, Oct 24, 2009.

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  1. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    OK, I'm planning on leaving Clays behind forever when my current jug runs out soon. I've had a lot of people recommend Red Dot and Promo, but after going through the tables very closely, I really have to ask how many of you are Green Dot fans and why?

    My thoughts are that by using a powder that's a wee bit slower, I can get the same velocities as the faster powders, but with less of an initial pressure spike by spreading the burn out over time, thus saving wear and tear on my gun and myself.

    The only drawback I can think of is that it will burn somewhat dirtier, but since I do clean my weapon regularly, I don't see that as much of a problem. Or is it?

    BTW, I primarily shoot skeet, so I don't need high velocities - these are going to be 1 ounce loads in Win AA compression formed (NOT HS!) cases, WAA12SL wads and Win 209 primers. The Alliant tables list that load with 18 - 21.5 grains of Green Dot.

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude Abides..."
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Charlie, Green Dot is a good powder and will probably do fine in your application, but don't expect much of an effect of "spreading out the the burn time" since the main effect in comparison to Red Dot is to have a bit less pressure whose peak is delayed by less than 1/10,000 second.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Neil
     
  3. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    Neil,

    That's VERY interesting. It pretty well blows my "spread out the kick" theory, but I do notice that it achieves roughly the same velocity (ignoring many variables) with about 2000 psi less pressure. That alone seems worth it, but since almost everything is a compromise, I wonder what the drawbacks are...(?)

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude Abides..."
     
  4. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    it may be in my mind but I think in cold weather the greendot does not burn complete in 1 oz loads, I use claydot for slower 1 1/8 loads, and 1 oz loads, and use the greendot for handicap loads.



    tony
     
  5. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    Being practical, we only need about 1100~1150 fps for Skeet, so 16~16.5 gr of Promo is all you will need for a low pressure load. Green Dot is great powder for hotter 1oz and 1 1/8oz loads, but unnecessary for Skeet. Go with Promo and don't look back!

    AndyH ;-)
     
  6. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

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    Neil:

    What does the graph look like with 1150 fps with 1 oz loads with both powders?

    I pretty much quit red dot years ago and went to green dot. For me, there hasn't been a downside yet!
     
  7. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    AndyH,

    You're absolutely right about velocities in skeet. I may very well end up shooting Promo, but a 2K psi difference in pressure is hard to ignore.


    OldRemFan,

    Do you do much cold weather shooting? I've heard comments like Tony's before, though I don't recall it being about Green Dot. I do most of my shooting in the winter because I no longer deal with heat as well as I used to. Having said that, I don't usually see temps below about 25 degrees, so we're not talking about extreme cold. Have you ever had any trouble in cold weather?

    What is it about Green Dot that you like the best?

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude Abides..."
     
  8. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    When I shot skeet, I used 1150 and 1200 fps 1 and 1 1/8 loads. Unlike Neil I COULD tell the difference in the "kick" of Red vs Green Dot. Red was more economical, but I chose to stay with the softer green. I didn't shoot a gas operated auto and it's not that cold here, so function wasn't that important. AJ
     
  9. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    AJ, are you going to be at the SW Grand in San Antonio next spring? I've been doing Red Dot vs PB since it was more likely to have a result because the difference is bigger. But I still have a few Green Dot loads you could try to differentiate from Red Dot. How 'bout it?

    Neil
     
  10. Ron(Oh)

    Ron(Oh) TS Member

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    I use 18.5 grains Greendot/AA12SL wads Fiocchi primers 1oz shot for everything
    Singles/Handicap/Doubles
    Hulls STS/AA/Gun Clubs
     
  11. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    Ron(Oh),

    Can I assume that Ron(Oh) means Ron in Ohio? What kind of cold weather have you shot Green Dot loads in? I was born in Columbus and my Dad lived the last 20 years of his life in Elyria, so I know how cold it can get there...


    R/s,<br />
    Charlie

    "The Dude Abides..."
     
  12. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    For skeet, you do not need Green Dot. Red Dot is the equivalent to Clays. Just guessing, but a nice Red Dot load for 1 oz. of 8's = AA/Remington Hull, Windjammer wad, Cheditte primer with less than 18.0 grains [17.8 is very quick with little kick]. Green Dot is known to deliver tight patterns... in skeet you want a rapid spread. Fred
     
  13. plinker61

    plinker61 TS Member

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    if you do what alliant reccomends with ALL componets in the recipe youll get a good burn,i use rem. sts hull,win 209,19.5 gr green dot,remington(no clone) fig 8 wad,and 1/18 oz of 7.5 shot and never have a problem with un burnt powder,had guys ask for my recipe,gave it to them,and come back and ask why it was so dirty,my question to them was did you follow what i told you?their answer was,well... i did change the wad you were useing... but i didnt think it was a big deal.my answer was "then why did you ask",mark
     
  14. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

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    I used to shoot in temps down in the 20's, I used to bowhunt in cold temp's too, but as we get more mature in years, things seem to change somewhat. I don't either of the above in cold weather anymore.

    I like the green dot because to me there seems to be less felt recoil. In my opinion, which is sometimes oversimplified, when you pull the trigger, the shot is taking the path of least resistance, any you and your gun are on the opposite end. Therefore I believe that a couple of thousand pounds of extra pressure that has to go somewhere does make a differenc in felt recoil. Having said that is it also mitigated somewhat by the weight of the gun. For what I am doing green dot also has some versatility that red dot does not offer within a reasonable pressure range, in different loads and gauges. All things being equal I will take the lighter pressure every time.

    But then, I guess if it was all that simple there would only be a half dozen or so different powders, and a couple of different makes of cars.
     
  15. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    Neil, add me to the contest. I think I can tell the difference. I should be there. AJ
     
  16. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Charles.F.Phillips

    If you wish to load Green Dot for 1oz loads, I can tell you it works just fine, even in cold weather. That is, provided you use the right primers and don't try to load too lightly. I usually test my loads for cold weather performance by placing ten or 15 in the freezer to near 0 degrees and keeping a similar sample at room temps. I fire both sets of samples over a chronograph while still at the desired temps, and see what the velocities do, and how the loads consistencies are. I can tell you that there are three primers I have had very few issues with, in cold temperatures. Those are the Winchester W209, the Federal 209A, and the CCI 209M. Notice the "M" on the CCI, not to be confused with the standard ones. That does not mean other primers won't perform well, just that these were the ones I found to do well for me. Be sure to use data for the exact components you are using. I don't recommend swapping around with primers. I used to live and shoot in upstate NY in the mountains. The daytime temps in the Winter can be somewhat severe, and if I did my part, the shells performed as expected. I test my rifle and pistol ammunition the same way. Nothing worse than hearing a "poof" instead of a "boom" when you have your sights lined up on something good.

    I use a LOT of Promo. I also use some Green Dot and other powders, depending on what I'm trying to do. For 1oz loads, you really can't go wrong with Promo or Red Dot. Same notes about primer selection and cold weather performance apply here.
     
  17. racer

    racer TS Member

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    Neil, I think I can tell the difference between 7 1/2's and 8's. Could you bring me a couple hundred to try? Thanks,Dan
     
  18. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    That I know of, I have used Green Dot in weather with wind chills at -10. No problems occured with ignition but feeling the trigger after half hour was impossible!
     
  19. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    Martin, can you join Neil and me at the Southwest Grand? I'll make up the shells; identical STS cases and Win primers with Rem figure 8 wads and Red and Green dot loads. Neil can test velocity. both will be loaded to 1200 fps loads per powder manufactuer spects. You and Devi can stay with Jane and I on the way up or down if you would like. AJ
     
  20. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Use Green Dot. There is no downside.

    That way there is no shortage of Promo.

    Thanks,

    Don Verna
     
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