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Grandpa needs advice!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Carlyle, Mar 28, 2007.

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  1. Carlyle

    Carlyle TS Member

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    My grandson just turned 8 years old. He is shooting a 410 right behind the trap house. Shooting mostly straight aways hiting 15/25. When do I move him back to the 16yard line? What age or ability do I start him shooting a 12 gauge with lite loads

    I know there are some kid coaches out there. Thankyou for any HELP! Carlyle James
     
  2. Ed Y

    Ed Y TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Sounds like you're right on track. How big is your grandson? Mine is only seven and just started shooting a BB gun.

    Ed Yanchok
     
  3. OhioBob

    OhioBob TS Member

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    Carlyle....I have 2 young daughters shooting trap and I also help with our local youth team here as well.

    If your grandson is shooting 15/25 with a .410 he is probably ready to move back some distance...but don't be in too much of a hurry. Breaking targets is a great confidence builder.

    The .410 is generally acknowledged to be an "experts" gun, even though most people associate it with kids or youths due to it's low recoil and easy handling.

    The bigger issue for you and your 8 year old grandson will be finding a compromise gun that will work for him at longer distance....I suspect that gun weight and being able to physicallly hold/lift/move a larger bore gun will be a challenge, unless your grandson is a really big and strong 8 year old.

    Here's what worked for my petite 10 year old daughter last year....I have a little Browning model 12 in 20 gauge mod with a vent rib that she could handle and lift/swing. I found a really short monte carlo buttstock from a model 12 that could be fit to the 20 gauge with a few minutes work. It doesn't weigh much more than a 410 and has considerably more shot payload (7/8 ounce)

    I also made sure that I always bought "target" loads and not the game loads I see so often with new shooters. Sadly, extra low recoil 20 gauge shells seem non existent. If you are a reloader you could probably load a more suitable 20 gauge load. My girl handled the 20 quite well and with good gun fit she shot a number of 200 target events last year....she is small, but tough and I monitor her closely for any signs of fatigue.

    Just this year, she has now the strength to heft the weight of a Browning Gold Ladies model...the heavier gun and low recoil shells have certainly diminished the felt recoil, but she tires sooner just from handling the heavy gun. In some regards it is good, as it has forced her to slow down with her swing instead of "stabbing" at the target.

    If I was doing it again, I think I would pursue the 20 gauge autoloader route, even if it meant buying a new gun...recoil would be less and it could serve your grandson for several years. You might want to look at Remington 1100's in this regard.

    I would encourage you to see if there might be a club anywhere near you that is involved with the SCTP. (Scholastic Clay Target Program)

    Hope this helps....Bob
     
  4. Carlyle

    Carlyle TS Member

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    BOB Thankyou for your respones!! I will take your take your advice, Thankyou Carlyle
     
  5. Carlyle

    Carlyle TS Member

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    BOB I forgot to tell you that he is average size boy. Carlyle
     
  6. Bluzman98

    Bluzman98 Member

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    He's probably ready for a youth size 20 ga and "lite" loads. Try that and move him a few yards (maybe 5)...see how he does.

    JMHO

    Jim C
     
  7. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    One of the biggest problems when young kids shoot guns of any gauge is, in addition to the weight, is the length of the stock. Imagine what your gun would feel like if the stock were 4 or 5 inches longer. It would seem much heavier than it does now.

    Kids have the same problem with stocks that are too long for them. The mechanical disadvantage of all that gun hanging way out there, can make it very difficult to handle, to say nothing of the comb's being too low and the grip, too large.

    Rollin
     
  8. OhioBob

    OhioBob TS Member

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    I agree with Rollin....hence my suggestion for a youth model gun....the downside is that there really aren't any "high comb" stocks on the youth models.

    It might be possible to find a composite replacement stock for a turkey/deer gun as they typically have a higher comb for sighting thru telescopic sights...I've never actually looked at the drop dimensions however.

    It would be nice if one of the composite stock makers would offer a scaled down "trap buttstock" for at least one of the popular 20 ga auto guns out there.

    Carlyle....one thing I forgot to mention as well....I had both of my daughters practice what we called "gun-ups" at home....it really seemed to help build strength in the muscles needed to heft a heavy gun. We made them wear their shooting vests and hat/visor glasses and all. It builds repetition, at least that's one less thing he will be thinking about when you go to the club.
     
  9. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Tell him to have fun and start saving his money now for when he gets older ... trap guns are expensive!
     
  10. OhioBob

    OhioBob TS Member

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    Here is how the little 20 gauge model 12 looked in action last year when she was 10 and weighed about 75 lbs. As you can see...this buttstock is REALLY short. About a 12 inch LOP with kick eeze pad installed.

    Also notice that by having a shorter stock it allowed her left hand to be forward on the fore end for better "leverage" as Rollin has stated.

    You could do the same with some creative work on a stock. I still think the autoloader route would be desireable.

    Bob T
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    20 guage youth auto. No question there.

    You can load some 28 guage eqivalent rounds and have virtually no felt recoil.

    7625 works good for that.

    A youth 1100 and if necessatry build up the stock with an aftermarket add on comb, the Naugahyde thing with the spacers under it.

    The big advantage here is that youth models are easily sold when the young'un grows bigger.

    If you like, you can get a regular 20 and put a youth stock on. that also is an easy sell later.

    HM
     
  12. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    If I were to do it again, I would wait until the kid was strong enough to push the wheelbarrow full of cash it takes. Better yet, I might wait until he can fill the wheelbarrow himself.

    LOL

    Bob
     
  13. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    There's a lot to consider. I have two grandboys 9 and 11 and neither has the upper body strength to hold a winchester 61, .22 rifle in offhand position to shoot cans with shot shells. And yet we have an 11 yr. old in the club that has already gone through a field 1100, a trap 1100, a BT-99, and an over/under and even run 100 at close yardage in registered shooting. Much of your decisions will have to be governed by the youngster you're dealing with.....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  14. GordonWood421

    GordonWood421 TS Member

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    Carlyle ,

    Here is another vote for the auto-loader route --- but , with a slight twist .

    Consider a Rem M-58 ; just about the lightest gun that shoots really softly compared to any "fixed" one . The M-58 is essentially an 870 that has been modified to shoot semi . A nice feature is that by putting the mag-cap setting on "H" the gun won't throw empties but will attenuate recoil .

    The M-58 , like an 870 , doesn't have an action spring in its butt-stock , so shortening the stock doesn't present "that" problem .

    A 20 ga would be a great place to start , but , the 12 isn't that much heavier and does offer some down-the-road advantages .

    Charlie
     
  15. Primedust

    Primedust TS Member

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    Hey Grandpa, I know what you mean. I am an SCTP coach and just had my 27 students shooting for the 1st time last night. Many of the younger kids struggle with the guns. I have a 20 gauge Montifeltro (Bennelli). I bought it two years ago when my dad had cancer and couldn't handle a 12 ga. anymore. He has since passed last fall. Last night 4 of the younger students shot that gun. It is semi Auto with recoil taken up both by the action and the butt pad. The gun weighs perhaps 5 pounds. (very light anyway) The smaller shooters had no problem with holding or swinging the gun. They were shooting light 8's in 7/8 oz. loads. It has considerably more shot than a .410. The gun is not cheap and is available in both youth and adult models. Although all the youths were of a very small build not one of them had a problem with the LOP. Really crushes the targets. I also tried it at the 27 yd line with the same shells. No problem crushing targets. Good gun and reliable!!!!!!

    Bennelli makes one in the Franchi model too about $850.00 with 4 chokes, a case, choke wrenches and wedges to adjust the drop on the gun. Montifeltro,(nearly the same gun) was about $1,000.00.
    When I purchased this gun for my dad it was priceless! I have some very special memories with my dad and this gun now!

    Mark
     
  16. Carlyle

    Carlyle TS Member

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    Thankyou!!! To everybody! I have more knowledge than I wished for. You guys are GREAT!!!!! Carlyle
     
  17. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Bob T,

    With the gun rotating upward on the toe of the stock during recoil as it would because of the high gun mount, the young lady will experience much more barrel rise. If the butt is too long to allow her to lower her gun mount, it could be reshaped, i.e. shortened.

    The length or height of recoil pads or butts is another thing that causes problems for young shooters, especially the smaller ones like the young lady in the picture. She probably mounts the gun high to keep the toe away from her breast.



    Rollin
     
  18. OhioBob

    OhioBob TS Member

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    DB Bill...I hope he can afford to support her shooting habit. He better have a BIG paper route!!

    Rollin....I encourage both my girls to keep their heads as upright as possible to overcome any tendency to lay their head over the stock or scrunch their shoulders so much to get their head down. The day I took that photo the club was throwing some high targets, so I believe the rise you see has more to do with a high target than recoil.

    However your point is well taken, as we knew she probably would not be shooting that gun this year, we didn't have an adjustable pad put on it. I would agree with you on having the recoil pad contact a little lower if possible.

    My other daughter #1 is shooting a Super X-1 with an adjustable pad assembly and it is much better and lets her keep her head upright easier.

    Bob T
     
  19. TRAPSHOOTING90T

    TRAPSHOOTING90T TS Member

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    My Grandson was born on Friday Thinking maybe a Kolar or maybe My baby Kolar(90T)It will still be going strong I guess I will have a little time to decide on 7 1/2 or 8s also.
    Grandpa Roger
     
  20. BP348

    BP348 Active Member

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    Great looking grandson!!!

    I've been thinking about the same, my oldest daughter is going to be 6 in a few months and she's tiny. I have a 20ga 3901 can I buy a youth stock for it? or would I be better off buying a different gun?
     
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