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Grand Slams records by years.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Jan 9, 2010.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Interesting statistics
    Grand slams from 1964 to 1979 there were 26 grand slams = 1.73 per year
    Grand Slams from 1980 to 1995 there were 153 grand slams= 5.88462 per year
    Grand Slams from 1996 to 2010 there were 240 grand slams= 9.23076 per year

    These are 15 year periods this proves that the targets are easier now compared to 45 years ago.

    Look at the percentage per year and that is with a declining membership, the peak membership years compared to now llok at the great percentage increase,
    This is all due to easier targets, voice calls, faster shells,.

    If this doesn't tell the story of easier 2 hole targets I don't know what else will.

    I used 15 year increments from 3 hole targets to 2 hole targets as near as I could get to the change if it is much later it would increase the percentages.

    Results are from the January Issue of trap and Field.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Doesn't this bullshit ever get old?


    (Rhetorical question...we know the answer)
     
  3. chazbodazz

    chazbodazz Member

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    Do you know how many were accomplished in the same day? I know of two shooters that accomplished this amazing feat, Tom Strunk and Joe Dillard. Not that many more I dont think. Charlie Gallagher
     
  4. TNCoach

    TNCoach Member

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    Gary,

    I believe there are more variables to consider it to be simply the cause and effect of 2 hole versus 3 hole targets. You yourself mention voice calls and faster shells and refute your own statistics.

    I'm not biting - lol

    TNCoach
     
  5. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    When records are broken in sports that must prove the track is shorter or the bar lower or the field is smaller. People surely couldn't be getting better. Can't be the Indian, must be the arrow.

    jim brown
     
  6. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Newer shooters don't get it. They never shot in the olden days.

    Don't really know what competetion is now a days.

    But Voice calls is a definite help, 2 hole targets a better help, 1250fps shells another help.

    Just go back to 3 hole and 1200fps shells and see what that does to the Grand Slams.

    Ask the the first 26 grand slam shooters in the first 15 years of Grand Slam
    Records and get their response.

    Gene Sears, George Snellenberger, Ray Stafford, Steve Carmichael, Brad Dysinger, Leo Harrison, Phil Ross, I have seen these guys posting on here, what are your responses about this, is it easier now than when you broke yours?


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  7. X2 fan

    X2 fan Active Member

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    And your point is??? The people you mentioned in your previous post would crush any type of target, anywhere.

    This is close to debating which came first, the chicken or the egg.

    Tim
     
  8. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Gary,

    I doubt that you have been in this sport as long as I have and I have to tell you that your facts don't support your conclusions.

    jim brown
     
  9. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    What % of ATA trapshooters have a Grand Slam???
     
  10. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Cowboy,

    I have been in the sport about 40 years and there have been a few changes. Interrupters made it quite a bit harder. 2 hole targets just put in the rules what the clubs were doing anyway. AA shells have been around for over 30 years. All this crap about harder and wider targets is pumped by people who aren't willing to work at shooting and hoping they can make the other guys as bad as they are. Also supported by a few All Americans who know they can win more money on tougher targets.

    jim brown
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    All interesting points to the longshot. Of course there are figures from 1996-2010 that don't show in the numbers. The number of shooters on the 27 is about five time what it was in 1964-1979.

    Of course you are aware longshot that to complete a Grand Slam you must be on the 27. Can you give us the percentage of shooters on the 27 in 1964? How about the the percentage of shooters on the 27 in 2010?

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. Charlie Becknell

    Charlie Becknell Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Dr. Longshot regarding 3 hole targets. I believe with wider angles there will be less 100 straights from the 27. The better shooters will still win but with slightly lower scores, IMHO. Personally, I favor 3 hole targets. When 3 hole targets were required, some clubs threw 2 hole targets illegally and many shooters wanted to shoot the softer targets.. Enforcement of the rules certainly was not standard.

    Charlie
     
  13. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Jim Brown I have been in the ATA for 42 years. Just look at the January issue of trap and Field starting on page 64 and compile your results in 15 year increments and see if I what I state is true.

    The interesting part is the 100 from the 27 hdcps that completed the grand slams.

    I have a count on the 27 yd 100 straights that completed the grand slams, there were 262 100 straights that were shot from 1964 to 2010, there were a lot of 200s on 16s and more that are not in grand slams, There were a lot of 100 in doubles that were sot and that are not in the grand slams.

    The handicap is the most difficult 100 to obtain. Just going back to 3 hole and 1200fps shells would bring the field to a greater level playing field compared to prior to 1964, The advent of the Voice Calls and Interuptors
    would still be in there, they did not have these prior to 1964, I understand that.

    It's like the baseball home run records, some stadiums had shorter outfield walls and therefore hit more homeruns, When Hank Aaron set his records, everything was different than it is now, One thing was the better baseball bats
    different and better Baseballs, This would compare to interuptors, and voice calls,
    alone, not 1250fps shells.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  14. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Gary, why would just going back to 1200 fps shells and the "per say 3 holer" level the playing field more? Your bases for analysis?

    It is invogue on ts to prove with statistical evidence, professed statements. Have you really compiled such data?

    Side bar, you do know it was the singles that was the hardest for one of your homeboy All Americans to obtain, don't you?
     
  15. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Ivanhoe- the # of shooters now on the 27 is a lot more than 5 times what it was from 1964-1979.

    The numbers are in there from 1996-2010.
    In the 2009 target year 14 shooters made the grand slam

    4 so far in the 2010 target year.

    The 2009 target year was from 2/1/09 to 8/10/09 as reported in Trap and Field

    The target year changed in 2010 so we have to look at a 12 month period for a determination there.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr. longshot
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Dr.Longshot

    "The 2009 target year was from 2/1/09 to 8/10/09 as reported in Trap and Field"

    Longshot with all due respect and trying not to be unkind here but Feb.(2)to August(8)is only six months. I haven't been in this game as long as you and Jim have. I have only been in it 38 years but I never seen a year with only six months in it.

    At any rate if the short year bothers your figures that much use 2008. What ever you use if there are more shooters eligible for the Grand Slam there will be more Grand Slams.

    Just like more Automobiles more accidents. More people more housing needed. More targets shot by less people with more 27yd shooters more Grand Slams. So tell us what is your point? What I am getting from what you are saying is if you shot a Grand Slam after the three whole era that it is worth less because it is easier now.

    Personally I think that is a Load of BS even if you feel that is not what is being said. That is what I am getting out of it this time and the last couple of time you have brought it up.

    Think about what is being said and realize it isn't in the best interest of the sport of Trapshooting. JMO you understand.

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. jbbor

    jbbor Active Member

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    Give it up Gary. We are destined to die a slow death, just like skeet, because to many of our membership don't want a competitive sport, just a high score. Just like our Country is dieing from the "feel good" mentality, so will our great sport.

    To many in our society only live for what is "good for me" and not for what is "good for all". In our sport and/or our Nation. What's in it for me is what got us Obama. Many try to blame Obama on Bush but, even with their faults, I felt better and safer under George and Dick than Hussein and Joe.

    Jimmy Borum
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    With one exception Mr Borum I agree entirely. That exception is those that shot a Grand Slam in the 3 hole era deserve no more credit than those that have done it in the 2 hole era.

    They couldn't pick the targets they were going to shoot back then any more than the shooters now can. So what will making an issue of the target angle prove except to drive a wedge that will further separate the then and now crowd.

    I am not against going back to 3 hole targets. I am not in favor of doing it at the expense of those that proved they can do it under conditions that they have no control over. So how would continuing this topic change the angle of the targets. As far as I am concerned the only purpose that will be served by furthering this line of discussion. Would be to diminish the accomplishments of those that have shot a Grand Slam in the 2 hole era.

    If you wish to discuss the 3 hole target do so. Please don't rip up those that have accomplished this feat as it will serve no useful purpose. Longshot has already said there have only been 262 100 from the 27 that completed the grand slam. What purpose could making any of them look less important by discussing what hole target was used serve????

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    What might be just as important as obtaining a grand slam statics wise, is how many of those same people have accomplished it over again a half dozen times or more?
     
  20. jbbor

    jbbor Active Member

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    I never mentioned when or where. Just todays mentality. JBB
     
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