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Grand Slams by 3 hole Vs 2 Hole

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Feb 13, 2009.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Let's approach Trapshooting like they did baseball pre-Barry Bonds. The Hank Aaron era. Barry Bonds to lose recognition of his accomplishments, loss of RECORD.


    The first 33 Grand Slams will be classed as GOLD GRAND SLAMS-3 hole targets

    The 34th thru 382 are the SILVER GRAND SLAMS- 2 hole targets

    I think this is the fair way to recognize the 3 hole GRAND SLAMMERS from the
    2 Hole GRAND SLAMS.

    Some of the 1st 33 are still shooting magnificently yet today RE:

    Dan Bonillas
    Ray Stafford
    Steve Carmichael
    Brad Dysinger
    Leo Harrison

    Just to name a few that are still outstanding, there may be others but I am not familiar with them.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    The first 33 Grand Slams are pre 2 hole targets that Neil said started in 1982
    if I remember correctly. I believe he said 1982 was the first year of 2 hole targets, if it was later than that, then more shooters need to be added to the GOLD SLAM list.



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    We would also need to separate the Grand Slams pre voice and post voice release. Then pre and post automatic traps. Also, pre and post adjustable combs and choke tubes. Maybe a West Cost and an East Coast Grand Slam would be appropriate.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    I am #41 but I broke my 100 handicap in 1980 and finished with 100 doubles in 1984. Where does that put me???
     
  5. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    I am in a charitable mood this morning Phil! I will put you in the Gold Grand Slam! Congratulations! Tom Rhoads
     
  6. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    Pat, Do you work for the goverment?
     
  7. racer

    racer TS Member

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    HMB can confirm any outer space shooters :) Dan
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    More TS.com nonsense. This place is getting crazier and crazier.

    Neil
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Dr.Longshot

    "The first 33 Grand Slams are pre 2 hole targets that Neil said started in 1982 if I remember correctly. I believe he said 1982 was the first year of 2 hole targets, if it was later than that, then more shooters need to be added to the GOLD SLAM list."

    You have out done yourself this time. Neil said nothing of the kind. What he aid was he started in 1982 and has shot 2 hole targets from the beginning. Seem like you are right back where you started from speculating as usual.

    Just so you don't assume I am lying or making it up the same way you assume you know when 2 hole targets were first set.

    "I started in 1982 and have shot 2-hole since the start. I participated in target setting at the Grand from 1985 to 1995 and they were 2-hole every single year."


    Bob Lawless
     
  10. Neal Crausbay

    Neal Crausbay Member

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    Kiner I believe you are #43 (May '84) as I am #41 (Feb '84) per Trap and Field. Like you I waited for years (10 to be exact) for the 100 in doubles. By 1982 I had 6 100's in handicap and 17+ 200's in singles. Sure hope I can have a Gold Star instead of Silver.

    And Gary (Longshot) you are correct in saying the Pre and Post 2 hole Slams should be noted differently. When the difficulty of the target you have to break to get a Slam is changed by rule as well as in practice it should be noted.

    Larry Gravestock, myself and I am sure others used moleskin on the top of the comb to raise the POI when targets were high and took it off when they were low. Guess you could say this was the poorboy's adjustable stock. Winchester had the 1577 auto trap back in the 60's. I can provide the exact year they started production if needed. Herb Ore was changing chokes back when Heck was a pup and Charlie Sheckler never had trouble getting a target on time, even from 2 or more fields. Guess we could give him the credit as using one of the first VOICE releases.

    Gary, along these same lines, perhaps they need to make the bullseye larger at the Wimbledon 1000 yd. match so more people could shoot a perfect score. If they did, it would deserve to be noted which size bullseye the top scores shot at though for history.
     
  11. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Good shot Bill! LOL, Shoot well and often while we can, Bob
     
  12. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    This is sounding like the "why Babe Ruth was the greatest" v. Hank Aaron, v. Barry Bonds thing......
     
  13. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Neal, old Chollie scared more than one puller in his days!!
     
  14. jbbor

    jbbor Active Member

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    My handicap was 1981. Where am I? I was not aware of any two hole targets being set in Texas until the "famous c(r)ook" arrived at El Paso in the early 90's. Jimmy Borum
     
  15. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Phil Kiner I also put you in the GOLD SLAM as you said you had you 100 from the 27 in 1980, also any others that had their 100 from the 27 prior to 1982 would also be in the GOLD SLAMs.

    Like other sports when you change the difficulty or play baseball in a ball field with shorter outfields.

    Neil just doesn't understand how much influence or advantage the 2 hole target
    on the number of and quantity of high scores. His being a 2-holer from his beginning of trapshooting.

    I started registering in 1968 and I saw how the 2 hole influenced the higher averages.

    It was like in a previous posting where the gentleman posted Hdcp averages,
    look how they went up, there were other things like adjustable combs, but the good old boys used moleskin, or paid to have an sdjustable comb put on their gun, before they came as std. equipment later on. I think the introduction of voice pulls had an effect on scores, as Pat Ireland noted.

    I remember when WINCHESTER introduced the Silver Bullett at Southern Grand and they had 2++ on each side of the shell, I know a friend of mine chronographed
    those MULE KICKING shells and they were over 1310fps, on a good chrono. It printed them out, I used to use those shells for buddy shoot shootoffs years ago. That was the first shoot where I seen them, they may have come out before then.

    I had a 100 in Hdcp in 1970 from 24.5 yards at Springfield Ohio with a solid rib model 12 w/ 2 3/4 dram 8s, actually broke 103 birds if you counted the broken birds I broke. It was 4th of July weekend on a Sunday.

    I have been on the 27 yard line for over 30 years now.

    So I know better than 2-hole Neil about 2 hole targets.

    Larry Gravestock in vented the adjustable Bbl, he bent them in the fork of a tree or bumper of a car, or trailer hitch.

    Also in 1968-70 at the Ohio State shoot you could not pull your squads and shoot with your buddy, you filled out entry card and they squaded you, you had to go to postings to find out what trap you shot on, and who with.

    That is something that should have continued. Now it's the good-ole boy thing
    I want to shoot with my buddies, they have better timing, they shoot faster,
    they shoot K-80s and not Automatics that throw shells at me, they don't shoot pump guns, and now it is Seitz's, Bowen's, Kolar's. How much would the effect of shooting with un-known shooters, un-known squad starting points, not being able to pick their traps, their banks, where their traps are beside each other and did not have to walk 20 traps to their next trap down in the gully and the one's up on top of the hill, the ones over the pond, the ones with the tall close trees, the one behind the JETS taking off and planes landing coming in over your head. I think I would call them a bunch of crybabies.

    Drawing starting traps just before the first squad goes out should be the norm.

    Oh gee I can't park my car behind my trap. One other thing is the allowed use of GOLF CARTS.

    Carson Woods being responsible for the loss of Budweiser for a few years till Carson Woods was gone, Carson Woods was responsible for the COUNTY FAIR FOOD STANDS, in other words poor tasting foods. Space rentals were not enough, he wanted a cut of the sales fo the ATA, so we shooters almost quit buying the food and went across the street to FRIENDLY's.

    The GOOD OLD DAYS were the GOOD OLD DAYS in a lot of ways, I have lived to see it, hope to live to see it come back, re-instate the rule book that was in effect in the 60s, and learn to leave well enough alone.

    I think I said it all and enough.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  16. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    I personally think you have said to much. I think you might want to go back in time but it will be a lonely trip. Please name a game that hasn't changed in the last 30 years. If you want to move them back then do it but cut out all the BS.

    Don
     
  17. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Why doesn't the ATA ask all of it's members what they want? I want straightaways from one and five and thrown 41-2 MPH at 9-9.5'.

    A postcard and online. I don't think anyone would object to a change done on this basis. I also don't think anyone would quit knowing that it was a consensus.

    A couple of guys' opinions here don't mean much no matter how many target they shot or how many 27 yd. 100s they have.
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Dr.Longshot

    "Now it's the good-ole boy thing I want to shoot with my buddies, they have better timing, they shoot faster, they shoot K-80s and not Automatics that throw shells at me, they don't shoot pump guns, and now it is Seitz's, Bowen's, Kolar's. How much would the effect of shooting with un-known shooters, un-known squad starting points, not being able to pick their traps, their banks, where their traps are beside each other and did not have to walk 20 traps to their next trap down in the gully and the one's up on top of the hill, the ones over the pond, the ones with the tall close trees, the one behind the JETS taking off and planes landing coming in over your head. I think I would call them a bunch of crybabies."

    "I would call them a bunch of crybabies" well I can say one thing in this hole thread and the last one you started the only posters I see that are crybabies is you. So tell me what is the difference on here or at the shoots I don't see any. all those reasons you have written here are no different than you and your complaint.

    Wha, Wha, Wha, I want my 3 hole targets. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Thats a very old lesson.

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. stanky feet

    stanky feet TS Member

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    Doc,I told you so on the other thread!Same ones over and over.
     
  20. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I am with Neil on this one. Why guys come on here who don't even understand the game as shot by the top shooters, which is a lot different than the game shot by the rest of us, and think that there is something magic about 3 hole targets compared to 2 hole targets is just plain nuts.

    I would also say that when you get a Grand Slam you can talk about the criteria for getting a Grand Slam. Until then, you're not even in the club, you're just hollerin' through the window.
     
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