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grand options

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by stampmaster, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. stampmaster

    stampmaster Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
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    89
    The singles and doubles events, class purse, pays "one money each five entries, high gun". Can someone explain this?
     
  2. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    Yes I can explain this, most of the money goes to the top shooters in any High Gun Option.

    If you do not have a top score or winning scores never ever play a high gun option.

    For instance 50/30/20 Lewis High Gun, the payout works like this if there are 3 -98s they get all the money divided by 3 split amongst them.

    Never ever play high gun options if you are not a top dog, you are just feeding them your money.

    If you look at a lot of options they state HIGH GUN these options are not for the average shooter.

    Another one is 4 lewis classes one money, that means 4 separate scores get the money, like this 98 first 95 2nd 93 3rd 89 4th, these are luck of the draw, but it takes 12 places in a normal Lewis Class into 4 scores it feeds the top dogs the 8 places in a normal lewis class that is a non-high gun lewis which would have paid 12 different scores, it divides the money so average shooters get a piece of the cake where the top dogs get a 1/4th of all the class money
    and with less divisions of it.

    A big shoot should pay 4 lewis classes paying 50/30/20 and it pays 12 scores
    not HIGH GUN.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  3. JT 27

    JT 27 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
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    616
    Who can explain the demise of the old "Rose Point" payoff system for GAH handicap events. Years ago, the GAH handicaps paid out on a Rose Point option. This money was broken down 90% of the purse went to the yardage of the option player and 10% went to all yardages. The top score was worth 9 points and the lowest paid score was worth 1 point. It was a complicated system but most yardages got paid back to a 91 or 92. About 80% of the shooters played this option. Irregardless of the number of ties, the higher score always paid more. 2 examples I personally recall, I broke a 95 from 24 yds and received over $350., several yr.s later a 91 paid me $100 from the 27, this on a $25. purse. See what this would pay on todays purses?

    High gun is for suckers, sandbaggers and pro.s
     
  4. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    2,390
    Stampmaster:

    Just to add to the above: "One money" means a winning payout. So one money each 5 entries means a winning payout to 20% of the entrants in that option. 50 entrants, 10 payouts. All that does is determine how many "hits" there are.

    Then it will go on to say High Gun, percentage, or simply %. That determines how the money is split when there are ties, which always applies at the Grand. High Gun payouts pay more money generally, and percentage payouts pay smaller, often very small, payouts to more shooters. You will notice at the Grand, almost all options are percentage but some High Gun options are available, especially in events where very large numbers of ties are expected - as in singles events. It really wouldn't make any sense to pay percentage when there are so manty tied scores because the winnings are so small.

    You will see many complain about High Gun payouts, but they exist for a reason. This a a competition and it makes no sense that a bet is designed where it is pretty much assured a winning score barely recovers the wager. Playing a $10 option and getting back $11, or even worse, does not get people excited.

    That is why both are available at the Grand.
     
  5. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    6,487
    At our club it's shown as:

    Doubles - Lewis Class - 3 Places

    Singles - Lewis Class - High Gun, 3 Classes

    Handicap - Lewis Class - High Gun, 3 Classes

    I asked the club secretary what the difference was and he wasn't able to tell me.

    Anyone here care to explain it? Thanks in advance.

    Bob Falfa
     
  6. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    2,390
    You'd need more info than "3 Places" in that doubles event. Evenly for first, second, third. High Gun or percentage?

    Lewis High Gun 3 Classes means the money is split into 3 even pools. Scores listed from highest to lowest and divided into 3 classes, high score in each Class wins. It gets a bit more complicated drawing the class lines based on scores, but that is the gist of what you have.
     
  7. Rick in Ohio

    Rick in Ohio Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
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    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I was told today if you can't break a 100 every time don't play the options. Options are designed to feed the big dog's. IF I was you I would just pay for the targets and just go out and have fun less you can break a 100 every time.

    Myself I have shot my best scores when I just paid for the targets and go out and have fun and not think about kiss that option money goodbye at the big shoots. I broke a 195 on the 200 singles at are state shoot 3 weeks ago, I was telling myself I should have played the options then after the singles was over I found out that 195 was a low score ... I was happy then that I only paid for the targets.

    Good luck at the Grand if you're going.
     
  8. bobdog

    bobdog Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    774
    I tinkered with Lewis class options when I first started shooting, and came to the conclusion that the best I could hope for was to break even at the end of the week. Nothing more disappointing than a 97 or a 98 when you've got a Lewis Class bet.

    Most of the other options you see are like place bets on a craps table. Lots of fun, but chances are, you won't win. Seems to me you can save yourself some time by just setting a hundred dollar bill on fire.

    One option that interests me lately, although I've never played it, is a perpetual purse option in caps. If I was a much better handicap shooter than I currently am, that one looks like it could earn some serious cash without having to beat the top shooters, because it's based on running two or more traps, not beating somebody else. In another thread, Harvey Shell mentioned a guy at Downers this weekend walking off with $1,300 and a yard and a half punch. That got my attention, and I might try setting it up for one of our trophy shoots next year.
     
  9. slickhead

    slickhead Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    505
    Location:
    West Tenn.
    You will notice the ATA has added the added money to the Hi gun purses in certain events. (NOT the LEWIS Class Purses). Note the Lewis purse is the luck of the draw where maybe anyone can hit the lewis and pick up a little money. Hi Gun means exactly that. So the way I see it the ATA is playing to the Big dogs as usual. Maybe last year the lewis added money that the Martins put in probably drawed to many shooters. Why would you not put added money in the Lewis that way everyone has a chance to win. Am I wrong if so please someone explain. Our governing body (ATA) playing to the Bid Dogs exactly like our government. Maybe only the Big Dogs will be the only ones that show up. Please Explain!!!
     
  10. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Slick,

    They have not added the money to any purse as you say, they are paying added money to winners the way it is customary,
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    8,371
    It seems little strange that the ATA can take members money and pay it out in any way at any shoot ... If they are going to pay out at the Grand they should have to pay out at all of the shoots that pay in the daily fees and spread it around to everyone not just those that attend the Grand ... I don't see it as an investment on behalf of the membership by them handing out the money with no chance of return on it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...