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Grand Numbers??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Jim Porter, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    Saw where numbers were down about 12%. I was there last week for three days and it seemed to be down. I wonder if the numbers reflect the kids that came for the AIM program? Two years ago they were included in the "shooter" numbers and I suppose they were not broken out in these recent numbers. I suspect many went home after AIM. If every one went into the numbers, where would we be?
    No matter what, it sure was beautiful weather for shooting!
     
  2. mx2k33

    mx2k33 Well-Known Member

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    How does the ATA determine total tournament attendance?
     
  3. blacklab

    blacklab Member

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    To come up with the down 12.7% I used the number of entrants the ATA posted on the pay off summary report and compared to the number shown in the Grand program on page 82. As someone pointed out, in another thread, this years numbers are different on the pay off and trophy reports. Why, I don't know.

    The other way to compare year/year is to see how many people classified. You can see this year, but I don't see where the ATA reports prior year numbers.
     
  4. mx2k33

    mx2k33 Well-Known Member

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    Report by classification makes sense. It seems that in the shoot reports posted online, they list "total" attendees by adding up entrants in each event, not taking into account that individual shooters enter multiple events.
     
  5. blacklab

    blacklab Member

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    So far, during Grand Week, the pattern is repeating itself.

    Down 12.6%
     
  6. bas

    bas Member

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    The actual entries, by event are shown on the Trophy reports.

    I came up with 13.41% on the preliminary days. This was comparing events starting Wednesday. Don't remember when AIM participants shot last year. During the Grand or prior.
     
  7. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Prior
     
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    On the average most big shoots are down 15-20%. I wouldn't expect the Grand to be no different.

    Actually, attendance should be worse at the Grand. More shooters, coming from assorted distances, would affect a greater number of shooters than regional shoots.

    You have a higher % of shooters coming from longer distances for the Grand. The economy sucks, and those on the edge of spending those extra bucks for the Grand vs family, may elect to stay home.
     
  9. JT 27

    JT 27 Member

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    With highs back in the 70's reaching to 5000, yes, the Grand has been very DOWN since the last year in Vandalia. Lots of reasons, lack of off grounds facilities, hotel etc., economy, increases in costs, anger, non-attendance by Ohio shooters, some EC decisions, loss of Bill Martin's financial support. Sport is a ghost of it's past.
     
  10. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Loss of PA shooters too!!
     
  11. Donm

    Donm Active Member

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    5k. Might want to check those numbers. I was there in the 70's and don't recall that many.
     
  12. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    5,000 shot the GA Handicap in 1999 with over 47,000 total entries!!
     
  13. Donm

    Donm Active Member

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    Wasn't that the 100th or something? That wasn't the norm. I believe that was the largest ever.
     
  14. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    What was the economy like back then? unemployment? under employment?

    Some of you people just don't get it!!!
     
  15. niagara

    niagara TS Member

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    During Nixon's reign with massive inflation trapshooting and the grand grew. And then there was the near depression-like era under Carter and again the ATA continued to thrive.

    I am sure those from Ohio remember the collapse of the steel industry in '79 and '80. Those were big shooting years. Ohioans and other rust belt states came out in huge numbers despite the huge unemployment.

    I remember the long gas lines of the seventies. We had enough fuel to get to the Grand.

    Anyone remember black Thursday when the stocks crashed? Yep...another big year at the grand.

    And then there was the dotcom crash.....yep...more big years followed.

    Clinton's election year when he said, "it's the economy stupid," might have got him elected but it didn't slow trapshooting down.

    Blaming ATA problems on the economy is like blaming Bush for the economy.

    ...it aint the economy stupid.

    jmho
    Mikey
     
  16. straightshooter1

    straightshooter1 Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Niagara: It seems that you failed to notice V10's chart reflecting the numbers of folks attending the Grand over the years, which he posted on July 22nd.

    If you had, you'd have seen that, except for the 100th Grand in 1999, attendance has been dropping, steadily, kind of like a rock, since 1993-20 years now.

    So it was dropping for over a decade before the ATA had to leave Vandalia.

    I don't know if it's the economy or not, but the expense is a consideration. I spend about 5K on a two week trip to the Grand. I buy stuff, powder, shot, wads, maybe have a gun tuned up, things I'd probably buy or "need" during the year anyway, but, that's still a lot of money.

    $45 bucks for a bag of shot (at the Dollar-the Peruvian stuff), targets cost a lot more, gas to get anywhere is about $3.50 here, everything shooting and non-shooting costs more and more and more and ....

    I would have gone this year, but, as I noted on another post, this year I used the money I'd have spent there to paint the inside of my house, re-do the kitchen counters in granite, and re-floor the house. (Okay, I'll spend more than 5K on that, but the point is, there's only so much money in a shooter's wallet for shooting and even 3K or more is a substantial hit for most anyone).

    Maybe economy is not the exact word, maybe the correct words are the "increasing costs" to shoot.

    Bob
     
  17. Harv Shell

    Harv Shell TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I heard the total shooters classified was up from last year, but total entries were down. Sounds like shooters picking & choosing what they shoot instead of the whole program daily. That would also seem to point to the economy. Harv
     
  18. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    GAH entries thru 2013:


    [​IMG]
     
  19. niagara

    niagara TS Member

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    When the economy is is bad...if that is what you say the problems is, then putting the org's biggest shoot away from the center of the shooting population increasing travel costs certainly doesn't help.

    Facts....it costs more for the average trapshooter in the midwest to travel and shoot in Sparta than it did in Ohio.

    As per the misleading graph depicted above....if you point the arrow back to the left near the peak when it was announced the grand was leaving you will see when people quit the ATA.

    Making targets easier due to the cheats also hurt in the middle 90's. I don't see the arrow pointing to that.

    We had approximately 80k shooters and now only 20k.

    If you had a 60 room motel near the shoot that offered rooms for $30 attendance would improve a little.

    These are old arguments on both sides. Attendance in Sparta isn't going to improve. I think it will decrease 10-15% every year. Then what.

    I would hope no one doubts how hard those involved at Sparta work to make it successful. They are certainly extremely committed.

    It is as successful as it is going to be. It is what it is.

    It ain't the economy stupid....
     
  20. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    So why do you care Joe, you've never been there & never will be?