1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Grand American HOA Trophies

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by jevoliva, May 30, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    889
    Got my Trap & Field today. Flipping through it, I come upon the schedule for the 2008 Grand. I was happy to see this, since I am trying to plan when I will go to the Grand. That's when I found this:

    1) NRA Singles - 200 targets split between Sat & Sun of Prelim week, both first events.<br>
    2) White Flyer Prelim HOA - HOA on Thurs, Fri, Sat & Sun of Prelim week EXCLUDING the doubles from Thursday and Sunday but INCLUDING the Doubles from Friday.<br>
    3) White Flyer HOA - All 14 Prelim Events Wed-Sun<br>
    4) Kreighoff All Around - Sat/Sun Singles (see above), Sat Doubles (not Sun), and Sun Handicap<br>
    5) Winchester Super 500 Singles -- all 4 singles events<br>
    6) WF Super 500 Handicap -- all 5 Handicap events<br>
    7) Browning Super 500 Doubles -- all 5 Doubles events.<br>
    8) White flyer 2500 Championship HOA -- I guess every single target thrown.<br>

    I am all for trying to give more trophies, but I am wondering how the heck shoot-offs will run on Sunday Night of Prelim week. After the 2007 Grand, which was a Chinese fire drill at best, how will the staff handle running these confusing shoot offs? How will anyone not in AAA class know where they are in the standings? Personally, I was involved in a shoot of for the Kreighoff 100 last year and finally shot 2 1/2 hours later after being called. One of my squadmates waited almost 3 hours on a separate night and did not finish until almost 1 AM.

    Flame away!

    John
     
  2. Tom Strunk

    Tom Strunk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    Payson, Arizona
    No flame here, you are right.

    Something needs to be done to show the shooters waiting for a possible shootoff where they stand AT THE SHOOTOFF AREA. I to waited for hours to see if I was in a shootout. At the main building you would be in first or second place go over and wait, and wait, with no knowledge that some other scores came in and you were no longer in a shootout.

    They need some Tvs with the scores shown at the shootout area so the shooters can see what their status is. I heard a lot of complaints about this, so I guess we weren't the only ones.

    Neil, please see what you can do about this problem, PLEASE.


    Tom Strunk
     
  3. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,535
    John :

    Ok I know you know how much trouble it is to hold a major shoot so if you question this thenim sure you are not alone maybe something better will be put in place by the next GRAND!


    Foghorn220
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Shoot offs can get very confusing. A shooter may be told that he will be eligible for a class shoot off is shooter A wins the high gun shoot off and if shooter B has elected, before the shoot off, to take the Vet trophy. The management can't provide much more information until the high gun shoot off is completed. Figuring all of this out and conducting the shoot offs can take time. The shooters are informed as soon as the management knows what to tell them.

    An easy way to avoid a long wait for a possible shoot off is for the shooters to agree to a coin flip to determine the winners. I like to do that, but many others do not. I have also learned a little trick when flipping for a trophy. I ask the management to borrow a coin to flip. After the flip, I try to put the coin in my pocket and it sometimes works.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. SILVER S 007

    SILVER S 007 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    77
    MR. Irland
    I dont know about you BUT I dont want to drive 1000 miles to a place you shoot a 12,000 shotgun to see who brakes the most targets, tie with someone and flip a COIN to see who wins even if you get to keep the quarter.Gas at 4 dollars , shells at 8 dollars , and you want to flip a coin,. stay at home we will tell you if you won. come on now if one gets beat shooting thats ok BUT to get the wrong side of a coin thats not trap shooting do you think??

    shoot well

    Bob Meyers 2106127
     
  6. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    889
    Pat --

    I run the shootoffs for the Indiana State shoot and have been very informally asked to run them at the Grand (not by the EC or the tournament director), so I know how complicated they can be. My complaint was not how long it took to finally shoot (although, in both of our cases, we definetely could shoot earlier -- both of us were guaranteed a trophy), but more about WHY make it now infintely MORE complicated with the addition off all these HOA and HAA trophies? It is hard for the shooter to know where he/she stands before the shoot-offs, so they are forced to wait around to find out if their name is just called. Also, with these shootoffs, you have to shoot all three disicplines, which decreases the number of traps available to use. I just can forsee that shootoffs on Sunday of prelim week will run to 2-3 AM, easily.

    John
     
  7. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,748
    Start charging the shoot-off participants for the shoot-off targets and Pat's flipping solution might become more popular.

    In these days of cream puff targets the cost to the club of these targets usually exceed the value of the trophy.
     
  8. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,474
    Not to mention the cost of the shells these days. They too exceed the value of the trophy. JRM
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Bob- I do like coin flips. Saves shells and time. I am not shooting against anyone else. I only shoot against myself. I try to be very competitive on the line, but another trophy is not very important to me. I have, not very long ago, ran the first 100 in a 200 bird race at a Satellite Grand and dropped out of the second 100 because the shoot was running late and I wanted to have dinner with my wife at a reasonable hour.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. SILVER S 007

    SILVER S 007 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    77
    MR Irland

    Then I can only hope that you and I tie at the grand. If so I will save the quarter for you.

    Bob. Meyers 2106127
     
  11. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,652
    I guess we are not supposed to mention the old 7.5 or 8s issue of harder 93 hole)targets, eh? Jake
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Bob- I sincerely also hope that you and I tie for something at the Grand. That would mean we have both had a fine day shooting and what could be better than that?

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. trapwife

    trapwife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,600
    I remember the "good ole days" at Vandalia, and the HOURS we sat at the shoot-offs. One very memorable night, it was one in the morning before Leo and Ray S. finally got to shoot off. Margie and I were the only ones left in the bleachers. Shoot offs can take alot of time, not matter where they are held, this isn't just a Sparta problem. I too hope the system can be refined so it is more enjoyable for spectators as well as shooters.
     
  14. dedpair

    dedpair Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    489
    John,

    I've been involved with the grand Shootoffs for the last 7 years and in PA for the last 2, and last year was a challenge considering all the special shootoffs and long nites. We had asked the last 2 years to put some kind of monitor to show high scores and potential shootoffs, but to this date they have not been installed. Considering in 2006 Liz Christenson and I ran them from a folding table, the building last year improved things greatly. All of us involved last year work very hard to keep things running smoothly and this year should be no different, if Lucky, Rudy, Lynn G, Mike and Lynn C are again involved, as we've had a year to learn from any mistakes we made.

    As for all the extra stuff, it will be sorted out, and most of them are by carry over or by reverse sub-event. And I agree Sunday will be a challenge if all Preliminary days are to be resolved before Grand Week. But it does make it tough on the shooters involved, especially when they are involved in mutiple shootoffs. I'm sure the EC had the shooters in mind by adding these trophies, it will just take some patience to sort them all out, so it's a trade off I guess.

    Jeff Graupp
     
  15. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    889
    Jeff,

    Thank you for your comments. That is what I was looking for. Since the program was not up yet, it was impossible to tell how they were going to resolve the S/O for those new trophies. The problem lies not for the AAA or AA shooters, but for the rest of the classes and the categories. The new category declaration rule should help (I know it will help in Indiana) but without some way to see where you are at (i.e. the monitor, or posting them via paper), it could still be a very long night on Sunday.

    Throw me an e-mail (see above) -- I would love to discuss some ideas with someone that is open to them and you seem that you are that kind of person. I am very familiar with Bubba's shoot-off forms, so I might be able to provide a slightly new/different perspective on this. #1 problem seems like communications -- of course to the shooters, but to the delegates doing the referreeing for them.

    Hope things are going well for y'all in PA!

    Trapwife -- I didn't mean for it sound as a Sparta problem, more to the fact that if we were already having a lot of problems last year (as Jeff alluded to) and the Sunday of Prelim week is always the "clean-up" day for shootoffs, why add three to five new groups of trophies to shoot off for?

    John
     
  16. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    889
    hey hey -- what do you know? They are NOT going to shoot off the Super 500 Trophies!

    GREAT MOVE!!

    I apologize for the pre-emptive bickering...

    Shoot-offs in prelim week: handicap events at the end of the shooting day, everything else carrysover until Sunday - GREAT!

    Grand week -- shoot offs start at 7:30 PM - GREAT!

    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

    John
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.