1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

GRAND AMERICAN - Day 5

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Steven R. Scheib, Aug 9, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Steven R. Scheib

    Steven R. Scheib TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    139
    Event 12 - NRA Singles - 479 Squads finished the two day event with the following post 200: In Class AA, Shelly Heitner, Pat Moore, Collin Bigras, Charlie Long, Gerald Armstrong. In Class AAA, Foster Barthalow, David Dressler, Tim Reed, Harlan Campbell Jr, Rachel Hopkins, Leo Harrison III, Paul Shaw, John Kravenik, David Shaeffer Jr, and Matthew Perkins Jr.

    It's hot again, with a SW breeze saving the day. Upper 90's with lots of humidity. The Kolar Handicap is underway with 536 squads. At you later. Steve
     
  2. wdr-NY

    wdr-NY TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    581
    Thanks for the update...

    Walker
     
  3. clayshtr

    clayshtr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    illinois
    Thanks Steve, Wish I was there.
     
  4. Steven R. Scheib

    Steven R. Scheib TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    139
    Event 13 - Kolar Handicap: Ron Alcoriza from California, a 27 yarder and young Logan Robertson, a 24 yarder from Oklahoma, both posted perfect centuries, the magic 100. There were 9 other shooters right on their heels with 99's.

    Event 14 - Wenig Custom Gunstocks Doubles: 13 shooters posted 100's. Two in AA, Stacy Bringleson and Travis Iksic. And 11 in AAA. Stuart Welton, Jerry Sedlacek, Mark Zauhar, Ricky Marshall Jr, Dale Stockdale, Phil Kiner, David Kelly, Sean Hawley, Matthew Bartholow, Bobby Chambers, and Harlan Campbell Jr. The Doubles did not finish until around 8:30 pm. My squad finished at 8:20. Young Cody Sullivan from Ohio posted a 49 on the front 50, but a 45 on the back. Why? It was dark as night! I'm not sure why 8 or 9 banks are not open up in front of the tent row vendors, but this is ridiculas. Why should anyone paying good money have to shoot a Grand American Double event in the dark? Especially when their are unused traps closed down. I will find out and report tomorrow, I promise. There is a reason, I'm sure that is very logical, but to the many shooters up and down the line who could barely see their targets, I apologize. I know the man running the Grand this year, and I do know this - he would never allow this to happen. But it did, so let's remember this before we complain - there are millions of Americans out of work and here we are shooting at the Grand American. We have it made, so to speak. I'd rather have to shoot some doubles event in the dark than be unemployed at not be able to feed my family. So, I enjoyed the challenge. The night doubles at the Grand - without lights! The first and last. Have a good evening. Steve
     
  5. CharlesK80

    CharlesK80 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    400
    "Doubles in the Dark" sounds like a dance contest. The Grand does not need to go there. Doubt the reason is reasonable or unavoidable.

    Many thanks for the up-date. Will be down tomorrow. Sounds like another hot one.

    Thanks again!
     
  6. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    6,487
    My guess is too many shooters showed up for the set-up they had - they were running 4 trap banks (27 of them). Gamaliels was almost completely out of Remingtons by 10 am (they had some Nitro-27 8s and some 1 oz'ers, that's it). They said they had a shipment coming in Tuesday. The were people parking in the grass down at the east end, which may have been a first. Also, vendors row was NOT a ghost town. I walked into the main building at 08:49, was classified, squadded (only two events), paid and was walking out the front door at 09:01. Now if they could just figure out how to start with doubles like the old days. ;-)
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,434
    Is there a rule in the ATA Rule Book that protects shooters from having to shoot in the dark? HMB
     
  8. RLC323

    RLC323 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    813
    No such rule. It is up to the shoot management to determine when to end events and carry them over until the next day. Usually that never happens for darkness, only severe weather.

    After Friday's doubles ran late, and the same three events scheduled for Sunday, you could easily project the late start, and ending for this doubles event.
     
  9. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    889
    Shooting in the dark is just dumb. We walked off the line at 8:10 an shot our last 50 AFTER sunset. There were still 15-20 squads shooting. Last event of the prelim days, which was the deciding event for at least FIVE events (Saturday Doubles carry over, the event itself, the prelim HOA, the prelim HAA, and the 500 doubles trophy). Why have this event run to the point of having 50% of the shooters shoot at least one pair AFTER official sunset? It took forever to turn the events around on Sunday and an easy 1-2 hours could of been picked up if they turned them faster. Shot my worse score of the year (94) and easily lost my carry-over, basically because there was no way to see the targets until the cleared the background and got into the sky.

    Matt Perkins from Indiana was basically forced to shoot the AIM program along with the NRA singles event because of the ATA's mismanagement of AA points. On Sunday, he shot the NRA singles in the AM, then the handicap, missed his AIM squad only to shoot his last 50 in the dark on doubles. Went down to the shootoff area to make up his AIM targets by himself. After all that was done, he was in a shootoff for singles (he ran the 100 on Friday and ran the 200 in the NRA singles over the weekend)... he proceeded to run 175 to win all carryover and events. My point of this story? He shot 325 targets yesterday AFTER THE SUN SET! Yesterday was a disaster.

    Please let us know what Mike Hampton says. It's not that hard to look at a piece of paper, see when sunset is and quickly realize that the event was not going to be done in time.
     
  10. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,123
    The dark didn't seem to bother Marshall, Kiner, Campbell, etc. They all posted 100's.
     
  11. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    17,222
    Location:
    IL(The gun friendly Southern Part)
    Plain and simple Mike Hampton has managed to screw up just about all aspects of this years Grand. Do i hear time for a change in management???----Matt
     
  12. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Chicago area
    Looking at the numbers from last year it seems like it would have been pretty easy to predict that getting finished was going to be iffy at best.

    Using numbers from last year for Sunday, there were 1331 singles shooters, 1766 hdcp shooters, and 1202 doubles shooters. Assuming all squads are filled with 5 shooters that's 263 singles squads, 354 handicap squads, and 241 doubles squads. Further assuming that the squads are distributed across the banks evenly, and using 18 banks, there would be 15 waves of singles, 20 waves of hdcp, and 7 waves of doubles. Shooting 5 squads of singles per hour would take 3 hours to get the last wave to the line, plus 30 minutes to let them get thru 2 traps before calling the handicap. That means handicap could expect to start at 12:30 pm. With 4 squads of hdcp per hour, it would take 5 hours to get the last squad to the line, and another hour to get them finished so all traps could be reset. That means doubles would start around 6:30 pm. 7 waves of doubles at 4 waves per hour would take 1 hour 45 minutes to get the last wave to the line, plus 30 more minutes to get finished, so around 8:45 pm.

    Since squads are not all full and not evenly spaced across all the banks, and considering that trap machines and voice activator equipment breaks down from time to time, the above is the probably a best case scenario.

    I don't think those "theoretical" times are very far off the actuals from yesterday.

    In short, when making the decision to only use 18 banks, someone should have seen this coming.

    The other thing I don't understand is the benefit to using fewer banks? I realize on Sat/Sun the west banks were being used by the AIM shooters, but there were two banks unused on the far east end, and the west banks could have been used on Wed-Thur-Fri (Friday was a very late day also). There could be a good reason for it (i.e. cost, etc.) but my understanding from talking to some of the help is that they were being paid by the hour, so if that is true the cost to operate additional banks would not be an issue (as opposed to paying help a daily rate which makes fewer banks cheaper).

    Scott
     
  13. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,450
    Walmart has also run out of a lot of groceries. Seems like every time we go to the store to get something, they've run out of that particular item. I don't think anyone anticipated the number of people that are here this year.
     
  14. Kent

    Kent TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    157
    John was the squad behind mine on bank 24 A. Yes it was tough shooting in the dim light. I consider yesterday my best doubles ever but by far not my best score. I was able to scratch several out of the grass to end up with a 96.


    This is an unretouched photo of when John V was still shooting.



    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  15. jeffprigge

    jeffprigge Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,055
    120 fields , only using half of them , what the hell did you expect !!! OPEN MORE FIELDS !!!!!
     
  16. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,922
    Location:
    Thousand Oaks Ca
    Thanks Steve
     
  17. backfenceata

    backfenceata TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2006
    Messages:
    120
    Great pic Killins, and it got darker before the end ! Kirk
     
  18. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    6,487
    After the first 12 minutes they did have 114 traps running. Starting all of them would have helped, but the bank schedules were written in advance so I guess they decided not to confuse everyone by jockeying the banks around. That might have knocked a "hour" off the backend, maybe not. I was the first squad out and I wouldn't have wanted to been the second. My eyes are too darn old.
     
  19. RLC323

    RLC323 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    813
    WalMart running out of groceries? Good gravy! WPT had better get on the phone to WalMart corporate headquarters and get some trucks rolling to Sparta!

    Don't look now Bill but WalMart missing out on this "big Grand" opportunity is bound to make your WalMart stock fall.
     
  20. partygirl

    partygirl TS Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    201
    We took the line at 6:15pm. Make it anything you want it to be, but even at that time they were like little orange buttons with black centers. I cant imaging what it was like at 8. It was really poor planning for a shoot that is a major event for the year for many shooters. The thing is, this happened on more than one night. If Hampton organized it and then let it happen twice, he obviously doesn't care about the shooters. If I had his home phone or cell phone number I'd like to tell him what I think. But most shooters won't say anything. I think he's an ass for making people shoot in the dark.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.