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Got my hands on a Remington R-15 today

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Jun 5, 2008.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]<br>
    R-15 fixed stock carbine<br>
    <br>
    My dealer ordered one of these when Remington first announced them. It finally showed up yesterday. Went over there tonight to look at it.<br>
    <br>
    First, let me say that I have a 20" heavy 1" dia barrel flattop. It's a good position rifle to shoot from a rest or bipod, but I'd rather have something lighter for coyote hunting. I have been using an XM177E2 clone, as well as an old AR15A1. Neither of these are optics friendly because of the fixed carry handles, but the weight and balance is closer to what I want in a coyote rifle. I like the collapsible buttstock on the XM177E2, but for a pure hunting rifle I prefer the fixed stocks. I'm tired of getting my moustache and beard caught in the stock. So, what I was going to do was put a medium weight 16" on a flattop upper with a free floating forend and put it on my flattop rifle.<br>
    <br>
    So, when Remington announced the R-15, especially the 18" carbine version, and that it was camo dipped, I held off building an upper.<br>
    <br>
    I'm glad I did, because the R-15 carbine is almost exactly what I'm looking for. It's light, being just a bit heavier than the XM177E2. It's 18" barrel is a good compromise between a 16" and a 20". It has a short forend, trimming weight. I liked how it balanced and handled. I said "almost" exactly what I want. I would like a slightly heavier barrel, but this isn't a varmint rifle that will be shot until the barrel is smoking. It has a 1 in 9" twist. I prefer a 1 in 12" for hunting, but, 1 in 9" from experience will work with fragile jacketed varmint bullets. (Interesting that the R-15 is 1 in 9", while the real maker, Bushmaster, uses a 1 in 8" on their version.)<br>
    <br>
    Note that the R-15 barrel from the bobbed sight tower to the muzzle is fluted. This is not readily apparent from the photos on the Remington website. I didn't realize it was fluted until I actually saw the gun.<br>
    <br>
    And for those who absolutely must have an M4 stock, the 18" R-15 carbine will be offered with one:<br>
    [​IMG]<br>
    <br>
    Speaking of the Bushmaster, my dealer also had their camo Predator model with a 20" free floated heavy barrel. I compared it to the R-15.<br>
    <br>
    [​IMG]<br>
    Rem R-15 20" rifle<br>
    <br>
    [​IMG]<br>
    Bushmaster Predator rifles<br>
    <br>
    The Bushmaster Predator felt like my Bushmaster heavy barrel, though mine is a bit heavier. But they balance similarly. My dealer did not have an R-15 rifle version, but it's almost the same as the Bushmaster, except for the barrel diameter, slight weight difference, and how the free floating forend has its vents slotted. The Bushmaster Predator weighs 1/4 lb less than the R-15 rifle (8 lbs vs 7-3/4). The difference is the barrel diameter under the forend. This told me that the R-15 rifle was not what I was looking for. (The R-15 carbine weighs 6-3/4 lbs.) Interestingly, there is a substantial difference in price. The Bushmaster Predator was priced about $250 more than the R-15.<br>
    <br>
    As I said, I'm looking for a coyote rifle first and foremost. Would the R-15 make a good tactical/defense rifle? Sure, though whether camo is needed outside of coyote hunting is debatable (some don't think it's needed for coyote hunting either - but I think it helps for the well educated coyotes). But if I was wanting a rifle for tactical games, I'd want a somewhat heavier barrel considering how much ammo will be fired in a short time.<br>
    <br>
    Trigger pull. I was drooling so much that I plumb forgot to try the trigger pull. Bushmaster says they have a two-stage competition trigger (3.5 lbs takeup, 1 lb let-off). I suspect this is their DCM trigger. If so, that would help account for why the Bushmaster Predator costs more than the R-15. Remington says they have a "clean-breaking single stage trigger".<br>
    <br>
    The camo finish on both rifles was nicely done. It's actually a little darker than what is shown in the pictures. Both Rem and Bushmaster are using Realtree Max-1 camo.<br>
    <br>
    The "hard case" that comes with the R-15 comes with is a pretty darn tight fit if optics are mounted. Some scopes are not going to fit in the case. I suspect the locking case was there more to help owners legally take their rifles home in some states, when locked.<br>
    <br>
    Anyway, I liked the R-15 enough that I put it on layway. My son Sean is doing his welding certifications right now, and any welder can tell you those cert tests aren't cheap, so my discretionary funds didn't allow me to bring it home yet. Plans are to transfer my EOTech 552 onto it. Ultimately I'd like to put a low powered scope on it with an illuminated reticle, like the Leopold 1.5-5x. I've used higher powered scopes for coyote hunting, and feel they are limited to use in wide open country from a rest. At that point I'll go to a 22-250 or 25-06.<br>
    <br>
    BTW, if you want my opinion between the Bushmaster Predator and the Remington R-15 20" rifle versions, the difference is 1/4 lb weight, 1" difference in twist rate, the trigger, and the cost. I'd use the 20" model as a varmint rifle, not a dedicated coyote rifle. So the heavier barrel on the Bushmaster is a plus. The trigger is a plus too, but one could always be retrofitted to the R-15. I prefer a slower twist rate, and would prefer that Bushmaster did not use a 1 in 8". (I don't know if a different twist could be special ordered.) Also note that the Bushmaster Varminter wih a 24" barrel is now available in camo. (The stainless barrel version is not at this time.)
     
  2. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

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    This is the best thing to happen to Bushmaster, and the AR-15 platform. It has to become more mainstream, and when it comes out in larger calibers, such as 243, 260, 6.8mm, 7mm/08 and 308, it will wind up being another American field tradition.
     
  3. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Ah..looks like fun, but what size groups will it shoot out of the box?
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Some more info has come to light:<br>
    <br>
    The Bushmaster bolt is chromed inside. The Remington bolt is not.<br>
    <br>
    The R-15 rifle was initially supposed to have a 20" barrel. Remington's website now shows it as having a 22" barrel. I missed this change. This places this model halfway between the Bushmaster Predator (20") and their Varminter (24").<br>
    <br>
    The Bushmaster barrel is not chrome lined. I've read that the Remington does not have a chrome lined barrel either, but nothing official on this.<br>
    <br>
    The Bushmaster barrel is fluted under the handguard. The Remington is not.
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    <i>Chango2, quote: "Ah..looks like fun, but what size groups will it shoot out of the box?"</i><br>
    <br>
    Unknown at this point. Reports are the Bushmaster varmint models are one of the more accurate. Whether the Bushmaster Predator or the Rem R-15 Predator are as accurate remains to be seen.<br>
    <br>
    <i>MIA, qoute: "Brian. How many coyotes a year do you shoot an dhow ofetn do you hunt and how much of a problem are they in pinot noir country?"</i><br>
    <br>
    I hunt whenever I can afford to get out. I prefer to hunt in eastern Oregon, but with the rising costs of fuel, food and lodging, that's been cutting into casual hunting trips. I mainly hunt in the foothills of the Cascade Range, particularly around Sandy, Oregon. I have not done any coyote hunting in wine country. I have further south in the Bohemian area, but was not successful. I'm only getting a few coyotes a year now, almost exclusively west side dogs, and their pelts are not worth skinning. (If you want good pelts, hunt east side.) Right now coyotes are running roughshod on my mother in law's geese and ducks, so I've got some wet work to do. I might be best described as a serious, but casual, coyote hunter. I'm not a fur hunter, but I will take fur when the fur is worthwhile. BTW, for years I hunted coyotes with Browning 1885 Single Shot rifles in 223 and 22-250.
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    If you really want to get into the coyotes Brian, try dropping down into Humboldt Co. NV next time you make the trip to eastern OR. Lots of jacks and ground squirrels too. (probably end up burning the barrel up in that new shooter).
     
  7. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Not to worry, I have several varmint guns. I mainly use the heavy barreled guns for "target rich environments".
     
  8. bluehaze

    bluehaze Member

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    Wolfram.

    We have plenty of locals that can take care of the Humboldt County varmints. Don't really need any out of state help. Thanks anyway.

    Chuck C.
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Ooo, turf war! But don't worry, Nevada is a bit out of my way.<br>
    <br>
    I spent my Economic Stimulus check and brought it home tonight. Mounted an EOTech 552 holosight I had laying around on it. Need to boresight it this week and sight it in.<br>
    <br>
    No pics yet. My wife is using the digital camera for her work. I'll try to get some posted up.<br>
    <br>
    The trigger is very nice. It doesn't stage, unlike the match trigger in it's Bushmaster counterpart. It not all that light. My gauge shows 4-1/4 lbs. But it's glass smooth, and that makes it feel lighter than it is. It also feels like the breaks sooner, but that may be because of the smoothness.<br>
    <br>
    The gun balances very similarly to my old XM177E2 clone, which is the granddaddy of the M4 Carbine.<br>
    <br>
    As for accuracy reports, the best group I've found on the web was six shots inside of 1" at 100 yards for the R15. Compared this to a 5/8" group (inside a dime) for a 3 shot group from the heavier barreled Bushmaster Predator. But this is not a really in depth comparison, because of a variety of factors. The R15 for example had a cheap scope known to have annoying parallax.
     
  10. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Ooo, turf war! But don't worry, Nevada is a bit out of my way.<br>
    <br>
    I spent my Economic Stimulus check and brought it home tonight. Mounted an EOTech 552 holosight I had laying around on it. Need to boresight it this week and sight it in.<br>
    <br>
    No pics yet. My wife is using the digital camera for her work. I'll try to get some posted up.<br>
    <br>
    The trigger is very nice. It doesn't stage, unlike the match trigger in it's Bushmaster counterpart. It not all that light. My gauge shows 4-1/4 lbs. But it's glass smooth, and that makes it feel lighter than it is. It also feels like the breaks sooner, but that may be because of the smoothness.<br>
    <br>
    The gun balances very similarly to my old XM177E2 clone, which is the granddaddy of the M4 Carbine.<br>
    <br>
    As for accuracy reports, the best group I've found on the web was six shots inside of 1" at 100 yards for the R15. Compared this to a 5/8" group (inside a dime) for a 3 shot group from the heavier barreled Bushmaster Predator. But this is not a really in depth comparison, because of a variety of factors. The R15 for example had a cheap scope known to have annoying parallax.
     
  11. gussy

    gussy TS Member

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    Mighty big thing of you to say Chucky Cheeze seeing that you are a refugee from the Bay Area living in Reno.
     
  12. bluehaze

    bluehaze Member

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    Hey Gussy.

    Got some bad news for you. I am not from the bay area and have never lived there, as a side note, don't live in Reno either. Bad guess dude.

    Chuck
     
  13. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I'd deny it too, Chuck.

    Here's a trick question for you, who runs the only trap range in Humboldt county that has ATA shooting?
     
  14. bluehaze

    bluehaze Member

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    Wolfram..

    No denial on my part. Trick question?? Pete Valdon What's my prize?

    C.
     
  15. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thread hijack.
     
  16. AJ100

    AJ100 TS Member

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    Brian, I told you it was ironic. Hehehehehehehehe

    AJ100
     
  17. gussy

    gussy TS Member

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    Sorry about the HiJack Brian,

    Just wanted to expose the poser from Reno. Fact of the matter is Nevada is mostly public land. You own it as much as anyone else. We get a lot of dorks like purplehaze that think they own it just because they moved in from the Republic of California a couple of years ago.
     
  18. bluehaze

    bluehaze Member

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    Gussy.

    You don't get it, do you?? I have not moved to Nevada from California, When I did move here it was a lot longer ago than a couple of years ago and a lot further away than California.First time was 1969, moved here as a permanent home in 1984, that's more than a couple of years.


    Also Brian, I shouldn't have had a word war with this guy on your post. No more, I really don't have the time to waste on this.

    C
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    AJ100, good one. I wonder if Ted Nugent was successful in giving Jim Zumbo an "uprade", using his word for "enlightening" him?<br>
    <br>
    It's interesting that Remington has Byron South hawking their new R-15 coyote rifle. If you're not familiar with him, he make the Coming To The Call DVD's om coyote and predator hunting. Excellent. See the link.<br>
    <br>
    It's also ironic that Zumbo was coyote hunting when he got miffed about varmint hunters using AR15's and made his stupid statement. Remington dumps him, and introduces an AR15 coyote rifle. Zumbo could have been the spokesman for it.
     
  20. gun fitter

    gun fitter TS Member

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    Hows it shoot for caps @ 27yrds!lol
     
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