1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Got an adjustable stock, now what?

Discussion in 'Youth Trapshooting Section' started by cmccoy76, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. cmccoy76

    cmccoy76 Active Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    250
    Location:
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    My son shoots an 1100, but the stock is in bad shape. I found a Jack West stock through the classified section and it should be here next week. My question is, what process do you recommend for setting up a kid with a new stock?
     
  2. sportsman223

    sportsman223 Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    Messages:
    80
    LOP, combo height, and cast then its off to a patterning board. If unsure how to make the adjustments there are some good youtube videos out there or make an appointment with a good gun fitter
     
    BENCHREST, George MT. and cmccoy76 thanked this.
  3. DTMASTERS

    DTMASTERS Active Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    May 6, 2014
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    Chatsworth, IL
    LOP should be the first concern, secondly will be comb height and cast off or on of the comb. The height will give you the sight picture and POI, while the left to right will be comfort and centering the pattern. On a pattern board at 13 yds, once the comb is set to what feels good to him and looks correct, shoot several shots from a rest to see where you're at. Move the comb according to the desired results! Remember the most important thing, if it's setup properly it'll shoot where he's looking! After establishing a baseline on paper, shoot dead straight aways from post 3 to make sure he is centering the target in the adjusted pattern, if needed you may have to adjust the stock accordingly. This is the process I use for myself and my high school trap team, it works great. Now if the stock isn't adjustable, then tweaking the gun mount can also affect the pattern height and being centered over the rib! Hope this gives you a starting point, best of luck.
     
    George MT. and cmccoy76 thanked this.
  4. Bob Butler

    Bob Butler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    866
    Location:
    CT
    CM
    here is a link to an old thread where the 13 yard test was shown on this site.
    POI and pattern at 13 yards (Winston, photos)

    Neil wrote a more detailed paper on it and hosts it on his site.
    If you are coaching and have a bunch of guns to keep track of it is a repeatable way to determine what you are changing and keep records of the POI that works if modifications are necessary to the athletes gun. Be aware one shot is not the answer. There is variability and you need to stick to a good shell at the same measured distance to have a decent repeatable standard to return to.

    Some of this may, in some cases, be better left to the "Gunsmith" and keep the shooters head free of it. Adjustable stocks have been blamed for many missed birds along with shell type and other variable factors over the lifetime of the clay games.

    This thread is more recent and has a link posted in it to the published 13 yard POI method Neil wrote up.

    Browning BT-99 80/20 Please help me understand it's POI

    Its a simple system that can be measured and repeated with good accuracy.

    Some one will come along and tell you to shoot paper at 40 yards and or targets only. That is how this subject goes on TS.
     
  5. cmccoy76

    cmccoy76 Active Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    250
    Location:
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    So for a young shooter that has never really had much success, what POI should you start with. I assume right and left should be centered, but how high? For my son I will do this test with his current gun and set the new stock up to match. Then go from there. But where is a good starting point for the new kids? All we do currently is the 30 yard pattern test that Leo Harrison talked about in his video.
     
    Bob Butler thanked this.
  6. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,581
    Location:
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    Have him shoot at targets and watch his breaks - they will tell you which way the comb should be moved.

    Ed
     
  7. Bob Butler

    Bob Butler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    866
    Location:
    CT
    Centered Yes. My son and one of his team mates shoot flat guns. Both Athletes are One Gun shooters. Trap, Skeet, Sporting, Bunker and International Skeet. They make whatever adjustment for trap that they need to. Both tried a higher pattern and it screwed with the other games so much that they returned to flat. Both made the setting change back and use it for their ATA Targets. Our program focuses on developing athletes that can compete at ACUI in the All Around Category.

    But I prefer a little higher gun for the American trap targets myself, and so does my daughter at this time(just starting out).

    It will be different for each individual and what you intend to shoot. Trap is full of historic records shot with flat shooting barrels. But many today use the higher pattern. The other games are mostly flat shooting gun dominated.

    With this measure you will know and be able to keep a record that is repeatable if they make changes or switch guns. Give each change time to test with any vertical adjustments.
    I do not recommend switching between settings for different games. The hardware is not that strong and resetting too often will wear out the small screws. But Many do.
     
    cmccoy76 thanked this.
  8. Stephen Benson

    Stephen Benson Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Minnesota
    cmccoy - Left and right is more important to start. Make sure his eye is centered down the rib. I start the setup of height by just stacking the beads in a figure 8 and have them shoot a bunch of straight aways from 3. I like to set the height so they are breaking birds when the bead touches the clay. Shot timing has more influence on POI needed to achieve this sight picture than anything else. Vertical gun movement speed also impacts this. What I'm saying is there's no magic number (6" high at 30, etc) that will guarantee the sight picture he wants. Remember, a 1/16" change at the comb will yield about 2" at 30 yds, so the changes you make will be very small.

    Pattern board is great to get you a number, but remember they are moving their gun to the target when they are shooting clays not holding on a dot of the patterning board. PB is great for confirming left and right shot placement.

    Good Luck. I have 2 of the Jack West stocks on 1100's and they are pretty nice if you can get them cheaper than retail. You haven't given any more reports on how they have been doing. Still 3 weeks until we start shooting here in MN.
     
    OldGoat and cmccoy76 thanked this.
  9. BENCHREST

    BENCHREST Active Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    613
    Patterning the gun gives the shooter a visual picture of what is happening when he or she fires the gun. Based on the speed he or she acquires the bird it should lowered or raised. Adjusting the comb left or right you need to take into 2 scenarios, the obvious is the eye centered over the rib and second is the new shooter pulling or squeezing the trigger. One of the important rules that should be taught is sight picture, and it should never deviate. Sight picture is the target resting on top of the rib, never cover it or float it. Stacking beads only distracts from the optimal goal of seeing the target and breaking the target. Joe
     
    cmccoy76 thanked this.
  10. Stephen Benson

    Stephen Benson Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Joe, Trap is a pre-mounted game. Stacking the beads is an alignment tool for both left/right and up/down during the mount, not during trigger pull. During the shot, hard focus is on the target, not the bead. That being said the bead is still in your sight picture, but not your hard focus. The trap sight picture is more similar to archery (target in sharp focus and pin in soft focus) than pistol/rifle with open sights where the front sight is in hard focus and the target is more soft focus or blurred.

    I teach my kids to focus on the background of the trap field before they call the bird. The eye can focus much faster from distance to close than from close to far, thus focusing at distance will allow the eye to focus on the target quicker when it comes into view. If they are focusing on the house or worse the bead when they call, it takes longer for your eyes to focus on the target.
     
  11. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    12,063
    Always start on the splatter board. First adjust the comb to make sure the gun is shooting dead on at the bench at 13-14 yards. If the pattern is to the left, move the comb to the right. Do this multiple times (7-8) because he can jerk the gun even on a bench. Move the comb about a 1/8" and shoot again, always verifying the movement is showing progress in the right direction on the splatter board.

    Once it's dead center right and left, then shoot some straightaways, and play with raising or lowering the comb to get the best breaks. Then go to angle targets on 1 and 5. Don't be surprised if you don't have a "figure 8" with the beads. The object is to get the gun to shoot dead-on on paper first. The best height of the comb and POI will come with shooting real targets.

    All this will be tough if he isn't consistant, and most new shooters aren't. You may have to tweak it a bit when he becomes more consistant.

    Then look at the length of pull. You want an 1" to 1 1/2" between his thumb and his nose. If the comb is not parallel, moving his face on the comb will affect his POI. Also raising the comb 1/4" or more may push his POI to the left if he is a right hand shooter.....back to the splatter board to confirm!
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  12. BENCHREST

    BENCHREST Active Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    613
    Stephen, I was sure we were speaking of trap and not of skeet where shooter needs to practice leads. If you can teach a new shooter to soft focus on the bead, that is great. Everyone of us has a different approach to accomplish the same think. The way I go about it is that I let the shooter see what the pattern looks like when it is properly adjusted, then we sit and watch a game and discuss how the birds are being presented from the different stations. We discuss hold points where the shooter is going to connect with the bird in each station (obviously not on the top of the house where the shooter will loose sight of it and have to chase it). Once we are done watching its time for doing. Then I watch their reaction time from the pull to the shot and determine if the pattern is too high and obviously watch the shooter to see if there are any bad habits, like stopping the gun or lifting their head. That is how I go about it Steve. Joe
     
  13. cmccoy76

    cmccoy76 Active Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    250
    Location:
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    I was a little disappointed, the stock didn't show up til Friday and we had a shoot on Saturday. He was so excited to see it and insisted that he shoot it the next day. I put it on and had him mount the gun to make sure the beads lined up and let him shoot it the next day. He went from shooting a 51 two weeks ago to an 83. Needless to say he was beside himself! I still plan to put it on paper, but don't plan to make any changes for now.
     
  14. woodridge

    woodridge TS Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    Was this the stock with just the adjustable comb or comb and butt plate?
     
  15. cmccoy76

    cmccoy76 Active Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    250
    Location:
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Comb and butt plate.
     
  16. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,804
    Location:
    HI
    83 is not bad, but not good.

    If you can get a trap to yourselves and have it locked to throw straight away from post 3. Try and fine tune the stock so he is smoking the targets from post 3. Then move to 2, then 4, then 1 then 5. This will teach him the sight pictures faster than shooting rounds of trap. Then if you can get the trap locked to throw "hard lefts"; start of post 5 and work to post 1. Last part lock the trap to throw "hard rights", start on post 1 and work to post 5. No cheating with hold points because you know where the target is flying.

    Once the gun is zeroed for him, document where the gun is shooting by shooting from a rest at 13 yards. Have him see his sight picture that he is using. Squeeze the trigger. Couple of shots is all that is needed if they imprint in the same place.

    Jason
     
    cmccoy76 thanked this.
  17. woodridge

    woodridge TS Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    I think that is a great improvement and tell him great job. That is 44% of the way to a hundred straight from where he is at. I know I would be pleased to shoot 90, make a change and get to a 94.
     
    cmccoy76 thanked this.
  18. cmccoy76

    cmccoy76 Active Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    250
    Location:
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    So, the 13 yard pattern showed 3 inches to the right and 4 inches high. We got the right to left set, but that is as low as it will go. Thursday night I will throw him some straight ways and go from there. Thanks to everyone for the input!
     
  19. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2007
    Messages:
    12,063
    Depending how he shoots, 4" high at 13 yards (which converts to 8" high at 26 yards, 12" high at 39 yards) may work. Hope you shot the splatter board multiple times?

    If it shoots too high, you can sand down the stock, or look to buy a used stock and sand it down lower. You can also buy an add on Delrin rib with reverse slope to raise the front sight, but I would shoot more before doing anything.
     
  20. cmccoy76

    cmccoy76 Active Member Verified Youth Coach/Director

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    250
    Location:
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Yes, he shot it several times. I do have a step rib barrel, that will shoot flatter if needed.
     
Search tags for this page

high or flat shooting youth trap