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Gone as Far as Can with Gun - Next Step?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by bluedsteel, Jul 2, 2010.

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  1. bluedsteel

    bluedsteel Member

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    I believe I have "hit the wall" with my current trap shotgun. In the last year, my scores are decent, but pretty much stagnant. When I shoot other's high end guns, or even some similarly priced guns to mine, I seem to always shoot better...gaining 1-2 birds in my handicap rounds for example.

    I am finding myself feeling somewhat discouraged about continuing to shoot trap, as my scores are pretty predictable...steady, but predictable.

    I have made several changes to my gun, including some comb adjustments, better quality screw-in chokes, and some technique changes, but I don't seem to score any better in the long run.

    If I shoot someone else's K80, or Perazzi, or Seitz, or even a Model 12 Winchester, I seem to usually shoot better, especially at handicap distances. My gun is a 32" over/under trap shotgun.

    I really don't want to spend 10K+ on a new trap shotgun. That is a lot of money to me. I also don't want to buy a used gun...that just hasn't worked well for me.

    Several who have coached me, whose opinions I respect, tell me I have gone as far as I can go with my current O/U, but if I want to score better consistently, I need to upgrade.

    I realize some folks can reach AA27AA shooting a $200 bolt-action shotgun, but I am not that talented.

    So, I am at a frustrating place in regards to continuing to shoot.

    Any advice?

    bluedsteel
     
  2. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Buy a CG Summit. YOu will not be disappointed. mid 5s fo ra combo. Good balance and the right stuff as far as adjustments go.
     
  3. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    If your current gun smokes targets, there's nothing at all wrong with the gun. Invest your cash in other means of fixing your problem? What is the gun and loads etc. and what yardages are you shooting? Have you patterned your gun since making all those changes? If there's nothing wrong with the way your gun patterns and breaks clays, I'd say it's more capable than the best of shooters?

    Hap
     
  4. moore5833

    moore5833 TS Member

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    You didnt say if you are having problems with flinch or gun fit,or recoil issues.All that can be fixed on the gun you have. Gun fit is the number one issue, ir you can make your gun fit,and shoot where your looking,you will shoot well. Its in your head now-and trapshooting is a mental game-talk to any trapshooter-we are all mental cases. PerryM
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    bluedsteel, we really don't know enough from your story to even guess at what's going on. There are so many variables involved in "getting better" that you could probably list all the things you do and still we'd miss the part that was holding you back. I will say that I shoot most of my guns about the same. The difference between a good and a bad day is my shooting skill that day, not what I'm shooting.

    But there are guns that won't do the job. Maybe you are close enough to "hitting bottom" that you are ready to "undertake a fearless assessment" the recovery industry talks about.

    That's what Hap is urging. Have you ever taken the time to find out if your gun shoots straight? And in a reasonable place vertically? Have you ever actually shot at least five patterns at 40 yards and counted the holes and proven to yourself that your gun shoots well enough?

    I'm not talking about the basically imaginary "testing" almost everyone does. I'm talking about testing and being realistic about the results.

    One last thing. Take my advice. Stay as far as you can from "people who have coached you, whose opinions your respect, who tell you that you have gone as far as you can go with my current O/U, but if you want to score better consistently, you need to upgrade."

    Unless they know something specific and disqualifying about _your_ gun and it's just awful in POI or straightness, or with terrible triggers which can't be fixed or some other irreparable defect, this is very poor advice. I've seen any number of "working class" guns surpass the "country club" elite both at the pattern board and on the field. And all a gun has to be is "good enough" anyway. Once it is, you can at least win.

    This is not an indian/arrow oversimplification. There are plenty of indians who are trying to use arrows which won't work well enough to do what they want. Your job now is to find out if you are one of them. And no coach can tell you by watching you shoot, (though they might be able to if they really, really, tested your gun and it failed). You have to do it yourself. You are reasonably balking at $10,000 but this is but a couple of percent of that. Good luck,

    Neil

    PS I wouldn't dismiss used guns at all. Once you get used to testing, they are all you will buy. And not just because they are cheaper, but rather because you can (generally) test them. If you can't test one, don't buy it. (OK, if you like to collect or something -but it doesn't sound like you do- sure, buy anything that that will fit in your safe.)

    Once you have tested your present gun. . . Stop! don't just read that and think "I did. I've gone through more pie plates than a kids' birthday party! I stood just like I did when I shoot, heck I even shot over water and evaluated my shot string and I didn't like it - too long. Or too short, I can't remember." You have just wasted your time and misled yourself.

    You have to find out what your gun does. I'll say it again, I mean really find out. Then you can find a gun that may help or not. Otherwise it's easy to lay out your cash for something worse than you are using now. That goes for "new" too. We are talking about shooting performance here, and there's nothing about "new" that trumps "used." Or the other way around, except that when it's used you can find out if it is any good before you pay for it, and when it's new you usually can't, laying out thousands of dollars for a pig in a poke.

    What you are proposing is like curing a miss in an engine by replacing parts willy-nilly until it goes away. This would work, eventually and at great cost, if you _knew_ that the parts you are putting in are at least as good as the ones you are taking out. That's not the way it is with guns; you _don't_ know. Unless you test every one.

    No one could afford to fix a car they way I described, either in time or money. You have to find out what's wrong and supply a replacement part which will do what the old one is failing to do. A car doesn't miss because it's a Ford, it misses because some specific thing has to be calibrated, tuned, or replaced. (But if it's a Chevy, of course, you _do_ need something better.)
     
  6. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Bluesteel, You also may be suffering from a well known and virulent form of

    "Trapshooter Envy".

    I'd suggest Neil's recommendation....
     
  7. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you're trying to justify a new gun, and just need some people to tell you a new gun is the way to go. So, OK----Get a new gun and you will shoot a lot better. I guarantee it.....
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    There are many parts to the equation to solve your problem. You can try fine tuning your gun and ammo. Or when you test a borrowed gun that improves your performance you might think about buying it. HMB
     
  9. DecalDude

    DecalDude Active Member

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    Same problem !!! NEW GUN GO FOR IT!!! justified new Beretta 682 gold E combo from my BT99.

    Jerry Lewis
     
  10. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"I realize some folks can reach AA27AA shooting a $200 bolt-action shotgun, but I am not that talented."</I></blockquote>

    Until/unless you have enlisted the services of a professional gunfitter, you're still not done. The people who can break good scores with $200 guns probably use guns that fit them; any other talent is secondary.

    MK
     
  11. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Trigger quality is a big difference between quality shotguns and the lower priced guns. You didn't say what you are shooting now but if it doesn't have a good consistent trigger you may well have reached your peak with it.
     
  12. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    SBX and others. It amazes me how this (ond others like this) pose their question and never answer our comment/questions. Blued steel may hav egone bak to Aussie land or lost his computer or perhaps gone to Target Arms and bought a new gun by now. Perhaps he is snickeign at us because we took his bait.
     
  13. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Most everyone shoots a borrowed gun better at first because we pay more attention to what we are doing .
     
  14. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Once a guy feels that the grass would be greener with a new gun its time to get a new one. Confidence in equipment or lack there of is very much related to shooting ability
     
  15. bluedsteel

    bluedsteel Member

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    I am very appreciative of the advice and the suggestions. I have read them all carefully. I am really not looking for an excuse to buy another gun. I really don't want one. I am not a collector, or even into shooting or owning a lot of different guns. I just want to shoot better, preferably with the gun I have.

    I have to admit that I have developed a bit of a confidence problem with my gun. My singles scores are quite good....pretty much at AA, but my handicap scores have been stagnant for a year...I am a bit too new at shooting doubles to draw any conclusions...so it is the handicap game that is really frustrating for me.

    There may well be some validity in ALF-99's comment about "paying attention" when shooting someone else's gun.

    I recently spoke to a nationally top-ranked All-American and he basically said the same thing that Neil Winston has said....I need to check my POI and patterns in more detail.

    So today, rather than shoot in some local registered shoots, I am off to the club to do that...

    I'll let you know.

    Thanks again.

    bluedsteel
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    That's great, bluedsteel. Tell us what you learn.

    Neil
     
  17. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Well.. you quickly saw the light.. Alf99 is 100% true.. as is Neil.. BUT.. don't forget the trigger.. While you can get use to shooting anything..for me.. a crisp.. light trigger is a must.. no creep.or very little..

    Despite the fact a milli second here and there don't seem like much..To me.. it is.. I remember a Beretta 391 I could barely reach 80% with.. I sent it out.. got it completely reworked..and about $100 later I shot that gun as well as anything I own..

    The difference between thank you for comming.. see you again next year AND being in the winners circle..is only a few birds..

    Happy 4th.. Come back with POI.. patterns.. and exact weight of trigger pull..And.. if you can..keep a record of why you missed the birds you missed..(notebook is important)..

    Most decent trapguns CAN win.. But if their dynamics don't fit you.. you can only go so far.. The cost of the gun is not in the equasion.. I've had many shooters put down the $10,000 Big name 34".. 1.77 kg and replace it with a 32" 1.47 kg BT-99 or TM-1.. and go right to the top.. Dynamics..
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Also, instead of spending money on hardware, have you thought about a shooting coach or instructor for some one on one advanced instruction?
     
  19. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    If you want to shoot better hcp, practice hcp. 3-600 targets a week. Then you';ll shoot better hcp scores on he weekend. Practice what you are good at (singles) and you will shoot less well at hcp
     
  20. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    You have received excellent advice on this thread. If the gun in question is a Browning O/U with Browning factory choke tubes, you may need a tighter choke tube for Handicap, one that puts 75% of the pattern in a 30" circle at the distance you break the target.
     
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