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Gold Medal reloadability test...interesting result

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Beretta Young Gun, Jan 31, 2013.

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  1. Beretta Young Gun

    Beretta Young Gun Active Member

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    Here is my thread comparing Gold Medal hulls. Old style ribbed vs. Smooth vs. New style ribbed. This will be a controversial test. I was very suprised by the results

    Conditions: 18.8gr. Red dot, 1 1/8 #7.5 (3 dram eqv), Fiocchi primer, DR windjammer replacement.

    Mec 9000H reloader with univ. Charge bar.

    Ljutic Mid Rib, .740 bore. 705 choke. Release trigger.

    Chronograph calibrated using 2 brand new 3dram AA's (1201FPS,1200FPS) and 2 brand new 3dram STS's (1204FPS,1208FPS)

    OSR=Old Style Ribbed, SM=Smooth, NSR=New Style Ribbed

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  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Would have not guessed that outcome. You are having too much fun BYG. Time to try the Euro trash hulls.
     
  3. Beretta Young Gun

    Beretta Young Gun Active Member

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    Grntitan, I don't keep ant euro trash hulls around my loading room. However, I would like to test Rios, noble sports, and fiocchis but I don't have any and I don't know anybody that shhots them as a new shell. Id also like to pit noble sport papers against fed. Papers.

    My next test will be high speed/pressure against low speed/pressure using 800X. BYG
     
  4. Perazzi_MX8

    Perazzi_MX8 Well-Known Member

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    I had a lot of Federal old style ribbed from shooting 20 years ago. I have been loading them and toss them now because I have had case failures. They separate at the base of the wad/powder area about 1/3 the way up. The whole separated thing (wad, shot and 2/3 of the hull) leaves the barrel. I have had some of them wrinkle the hull when loaded, and nearly all of them, fail. I'm not sure if the plastic has deteriorated with age or what. If I see a wrinkle I cut it open and salvage the components. I've also had them fail vertically with half of the hull missing from top to the brass base. Loading 18 grs. Red Dot, Fed 209, Fed 12S3 wad. Anyone else have this problem?
     
  5. ljuticsscentennialpro

    ljuticsscentennialpro Member

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    BYG, thanks so much for your project. I've used the smooth Gold Medals for pot loads for years and I've had great debates with my buddy Norm, who prefers the ribbed Gold Medals. I've never had a base failure with the smoothies, even with 1 1/4 oz pot loads. Take care, Bob
     
  6. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I have loaded many thousands of smoothies and many of these several times without a problem. Before that I loaded the old ribbed Gold Medals and now I prefer the new ribbed Gold Medal or Paper hull.

    I load 19.5 grains of Green Dot, Clay Buster 12S3 clone, Nobel 209 or Federal 209A (winter) primer and 1 1/8 of 7 1/2's in the plastics.

    I load 18 grains of Red Dot, Federal 209A primer, Clay Buster 12C1 clone wad and 1 1/8 of 7 1/2 shot in the Paper hull.

    With either hull, I get very good results.

    I have had a few of the original Remington Nitro 27 gold hull that had been loaded too many times separate just above the brass and become "zingers". These were loaded with 16.5 E3 and 1 oz of 8's. In my opinion. a combination of age, excessive reloading and the resizing crimp of a MEC Grabber or 9000 weakens the hull so that the case separates where the top edge of the resizing collet scores the hull.

    Ed Ward
     
  7. Harv Shell

    Harv Shell TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I tried the smoothies last spring when Remington didn't participate in the rebates. Never made it to the 1st reload, had 2 in the first 50 end up with the brass in hand & hull in the barrel. Federal had me send all 5 flats back to them for a full refund. Switched over to the Federal papers and selling the hulls to a friend. Shooting new papers for $52 a flat, not worth reloading. Hoping for rebates this spring.
     
  8. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    My experience parallels that of "Shotshell" above. At about the same time as the smooth hull was coming out, I decided to abandon the Remington ammo I had been using for years and try Federal Gold Medals. I bought 20 flats, 12 plastic and eight paper.

    Some of the plastics had smooth hulls and it just happened that the first flat I shot was smooth. Many failed on the initial firing - hull tubes separated, crimps shot off and sides split. I reported this to Federal where I received a very defensive, "the customer is always wrong" attitude. I found out from Federal what the first lot number of smooth hulls was, took the rest of the smooths back and exchanged them by lot number for ribbed.

    I frankly saw no advantage to the Gold Medals and when those hulls were discarded, I went back to Remington STS/Nitros. Accordingly, the results of your test were surprising to me. I only load my hulls nine times and discard them after those 10 firings but I know people who load all brands of hulls as many times as you loaded those Gold Medals.

    Thank you for taking the time to perform the test and report it to us.

    Ed
     
  9. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    That was interesting. I loaded a lot of the old Federal ribbed hulls with 18.5 grains of 700X, and could hardly wear one out. I would like to see someone do these tests on Wally World El Cheapies. I've had a number of guys tell me me they get 4-7 reloads out of them. Which, I find hard to believe.
     
  10. Harv Shell

    Harv Shell TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    That's funny Ed, when I contacted Federal they gave me the standard line "this is the first problem like this we have heard of." I will give them credit for paying the shipping and refunding the total purchase promptly, that's why I went with the papers. Great job on the testing BYG, keep it up and you will join Neil Winston as a master relative info poster, and we need more of them. Harv
     
  11. southjblue

    southjblue Active Member

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    Thanks BYG----I load the GMs both smooth and ribbed---I'd say 1000s and still no problem----I carry a tool in case of a seperated hull but never used it yet.
    My 9000h loads them perfect----My load is same as Perazzi Mx8----
    I was very interested in the GM test to see how the smoothy held up---Glad for the result.---It may damper all the neg. hipe about the smoothy---Also very happy with the result because I have many 1000s---Maybe enough to carry me through my career with my K-guns---(JOKE)----Thanks again----
    George@SJB
     
  12. bkt514

    bkt514 Active Member

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    My MEC is adjusted so that I get a much better crimp than shown...I have several thousand GM, good mix of smooth vs. ribbed empties. I pitch them after 5 or 6 reloads. Federal Gold Medal, 19.5 grains of American Select, 1 1/8 oz shot, Federal 209A Primer, and 12S3 Claybuster Clone! Works pretty good for me!
     
  13. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    I load the old Fed. ribbed for the games. With 1-1/4,1-3/8, 1-1/2 shot they don't last long. After 3-4 loadings,They burn off and blow right out the barrel.
    Clyde
     
  14. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Which chrono are you using? It seems the consistancy, or repeatability, is somewhat amazing.
     
  15. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I meant to ask about that, too. All but the most expensive chronographs clock the leading object and accordingly read high with shotshells as they clock the leading pellet instead of the mass. My chronograph manufacturer told me to deduct 35fps from the readings I get when clocking shotshells.

    Also, I have never clocked shotshells - either factory loads or handloads - that exhibited that level of consistency.

    Ed
     
  16. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Since I've been reloading (60s), all three of the major ammo manufacturers have manipulated their formulas at times. For a lot of years, AAs were the standard by which others were judged for reloading longevity.

    In the early 80s, the ribbed Federal hulls were very good for getting more reloads with that plastic recipe. Later on, the same looking ribbed hull wouldn't last nearly as long! I used the same loads but the cases just wouldn't last like the prior cases did!!

    I remember doing such an experiment at the Santa Lucia GC in Atascadero,CA in 83. I loaded the same individual Fed GM hull and broke targets with it 32 times before the hull crimps blew off! That same change also happened with AAs of old. All three ammo companies change the plastic recipes from time to time.

    Hap
     
  17. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    I have been reloading for over 40 years and when my daughter started shooting, I went to 4 reloaads per shell. Any reloading after that is putting yourself and/or others at risk. It just isn't worth "one more" reload with the safety of others. View each reload as a stick of dynamite. Fred
     
  18. Leo

    Leo Well-Known Member

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    Good Job BYG, thanks for sharing the test results.
     
  19. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how much the type of gun and the shape of the chamber impacts the actual number of reloads. This past summer I picked up two boxes of empty Federal Papers at the practice trap in Tulare. I even scored the brand new boxes that the shooter discarded.

    Fast forward to my garage. I kept these hulls separate as I noticed a couple were split on the first firing. I hypothesized that the gun used had a very large chamber, or perhaps it was an auto? Sorting them in the garage revealed several split hulls. Once they were discarded I loaded these hulls and immediately found that they put up quite a fight going thru the sizing collet on my loader. This seemed to confirm that the original gun had a much larger chamber than mine.

    So given this experience, I could easily see where a gun like this could greatly reduce the number of reloads you get from a given hull.
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Avaldes, when I used a MEC 650 with no hull resizer, I had to keep the hulls seperated between my model 12 and Remington 1100! The Rem had a MUCH tighter chamber!

    Hap
     
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