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Getting Shafted On Shot Costs!!!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by lumper, Jan 24, 2008.

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  1. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Lets realize that Connies is also selling out of there garage or a storage unit so there overhead is almost "0" compared to a regular business that has overhead unlike Connies.

    Please do not take this wrong but in business if a dealer decided to live on 10% profit because they have "0" or very little overhead that is alright but if you have payroll, light bill, rent and such for your business you will most likely lose money at 10% profit and most likely lose money at anything less than 20% profit or even higher on some things.

    It's call business and if Connies wants to make pennies on the dollar that is there business but I think it is rather rude and unfair for you to say your getting shafted when buying local.

    BTW ... order a 400 or 500 pounds of shot and find out how much it costs you when your mail carrier decides to say your packages were lost or some of the stuff leaked out or all of a sudden your major bills and such start becoming lost or accidentally shredded or delivered very very late to the point where you may now be making late payments also. You really dont want to abuse your mail carrier ... they might go postal on you as well.
     
  2. CharlieHill

    CharlieHill TS Member

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    Hoosier, is someone forcing you to buy lead shot? If you don't like the price you can find it for, don't buy it.
     
  3. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Gee, and our East coast distributor is currently charging $34.99 for Lawrence Magnum. He also claims he's losing money on each bag because he ordered it when the price was high and couldn't cancel.

    I think I'll jump in my car head out to Washington State and buy a few bags!!
     
  4. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Hmmm ... so possibly they might even be picking it up themselves and thusly not paying less by picking it up themselves ... hmmm ... kind of that overhead and profit thing that was mentioned already.
     
  5. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Now figure that a full load of shot in an tractor trailer would be about 48000 ponds and if that shot was shipped from Oregon to say Chicago which is about 2000 miles that haul itself would be around $3500 dollars. Now that entire load is most likely going to a distributor that is going to stock and ship it to your local dealer. Now the shot getting to just the wholesaler/distributor is costing about $31 a bag before he even unloads it from the truck ... now he has to pay his operating overhead and then ship it to a dealer. Lets say that distributor/wholesaler makes just 10% and puts it into your local dealers hands who now unloads it and puts it into stock and he makes just 10% and sells it to you ... well after all that the bag of shot in your hands costs you about $37.50 a bag and neither the wholesaler or the dealer can survive on 10% profit so they are now out of business and just where are you going to go and get everything else you used to buy from your local dealer?
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    lumper, I would add to your post that the profit a dealer should make is also related to the ease of handling, storage space and turnover of a product. Shot is not easily handled, it takes up a lot of space because it cannot be stacked and at current prices, the turnover time is not fast.

    If the local dealers are charging excessive prices, that provides an opportunity for someone new to step in and make a profit by under selling the competition. I am working on a deal that might give shooters in my area a bargain on shot shells. I need to find out shipping costs for about 400 flats transported 1500 miles.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    Will West Coast sell to individuals or gun clubs, or only through distributors?
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    At the Post Ofice you can ship 70lbs for $8.95. HMB
     
  9. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Clay Bird Dr,

    West Coast does not sell to individuals. That's too bad for me because I'm only 40 miles away. I don't know how Connie's is selling shot at those prices, no one in this area (where the stuff is made) is even close. My local gun shop which is fairly reasonable on most items is charging $52/bag for shot right now and because reloading doesn't pay at those prices, the shot isn't selling.

    I don't think we are inentionally being gouged, it is more like the vendors have a volume of high cost inventory that they need to sell at high prices before they will be able to replace it with lower cost inventory.
     
  10. locdoc

    locdoc Member

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    I don't see where Connie's sells West Coast shot. They do sell NorthWest Magnum which is made in Oregon. Made from reclaimed shot and therefore is less costly. Unavailable until 1/27/08 per Connie's website. What am I missing?????

    Doug Whiton, P/W dealer/dist
     
  11. Doug Sims

    Doug Sims TS Member

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    The spot price for bulk lead on Kitco today is $1.16 per pound.

    At $1.16 per pound, a 25 pound ingot will cost you $29.00. This has not been melted (Energy = $), dropped (labor = $), bagged (more $), shipped (freight = $), unloaded(labor = $), stored, and sold.

    I hope Connie is very rich, or can make it up in volume!

    Doug Sims
     
  12. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    They sell NorthWest shot...... Not ....Westcoast Shot.
    West Coast is made in Carson City,Neveda and Northwest shot is made in Medford,Oregon.
    The diffrence is quality. West Coast is the equal of Lawrence Magnum or Remington STS shot. Northwest is a softer product with less antimoney and sometimes the batch to batch quality is pretty rough. The joke used to be I am shooting Northwest 8's which meant anything from 7 1/2's through 9's. I am not smashing Northwest as I load it for practice and starlings since 9's are so small they take very little antimony anyway. If I shot my own shells at a trapshoot I would use Westcoast. Westcost runs near 40.00 dollars a sack where I live which is 450 miles from Carson City. Northwest is much cheaper but has gone up as well. I don't know if the 28 dollar price is still available. If it was 2o dollars a sack I wouldn't shoot it for other then practice and birds. Jeff
     
  13. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Hoosier daddy...The above posts are correct. The shot that is sold by Connies, in Centralia, Washington, is Northwest Magnum shot, made by Larry Stockman, in Medford, Oregon. Connies is a master distributer for Northwest shot and gets their shot by the truckload, delivered to their business by Larry. Connies has been a distributer for Northwest shot for many, many years. Those that know Larry Stockman and Dakin (Owmer of Connies) know these two men do everything they can to keep their prices as low as possible to the shooters in the Pacific Northwest. They both have this strange idea that by keeping the costs down to shooters, shooters will continues to be able to afford to shoot. If the shooters can continue to be able to afford to shoot, they will continue to buy their components from Larry and Connies. One feeds off the other. Neither of these two companies are in it to get rich. They both enjoy what they do and make a comfortable living from it. Both companies give unselfishly to various programs and shoots throughout the Pacific Northwest. I couldn't begin to tell you how many hundreds of bags of shot Larry has donated to various shoots since I have known him. He is ALWAYS the first one in line to donate for a good cause. We here in the Pacific Northwest are, indeed, lucky to have these two resources available to us......Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  14. LDAdd

    LDAdd TS Member

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    First of all, with regards to Dan's (Trap2)thread re Northwest Shot (Larry Stockman) and Connies (Dakin), I agree with everything Dan said about these people. I live in way Northern California (Redding, near Shasta Lake and Mt. Shasta) and normally deal with Larry direct (actually in Phoenix, OR.) and pruchase annually from Connies during the PITA Grand Pacific, held practically in Connies back yard at Littlerock, WA (try to find that on the map). In prior years we have been able to get our annual shot supply through a sale on Northwest Shot through Connies during the Grand Pacific. Currently, most of us are buying smaller quantities hoping for the best with international lead commidity prices.

    The point I would like to make is that after observing all the lead shot prices around the country from TS.com, Larry Stockman (Northwest Shot) is hands down the cheapest supplier of shot in the nation. While his prices have approximately doubled from "normal times", it appears to me that he could have probably tripled his prices and justified it with national "comps", but he didn't. Most of his shot comes from mining western clubs, he has a lot of equipment to do that....I can't say how much lead he buys from other sources but I believe his prices reflect that as well. Thanks to Larry for keeping us well under $30.00 per bag and as far as I can tell, we all get the same price, being a bag or tons.

    As to quality of Northwest brand shot, I have been in his "establishment" many times and this man is fairly ingenious. He has devised a method of dribling molten lead on a series of inclined plates to produce the various sizes and it seems to work. As I purchase sizes 7.5 through 9 for my shooting interests (27 yard trap, skeet, and clays) and have spent a lot of time at my loading bench meticuously carefully measuring Northwest shot pellets with a dial indicator caliper. Other than the 9's being really closer to 8.5's (works fine in my .410 & 28Ga.)they measure pretty damn close to specs. As to the antimony content, who knows....I'm sure Larry doesn't know either, but as most of his shot is re-melted shot(does antimony go away during this process??), it's probably as good as you can get with this process. I shoot NW shot for everything practice and registered except new shells for registered 27 yard handicap and don't see a difference in handicap scores (but I'm not Dan Bonillas either).

    So, Larry, kudos to you for keeping the price under all those "discount" stores around the nation and I hope you have supplemented your retirement plan with this period of high lead prices. The best to you and Karen and will see you in the near future for more "stuff".

    Sincerely,

    Larry Addison, Redding, CA.
     
  15. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Here in Delaware we're paying $38.00 per bag of magnum West Coast. That's delivered and no sales tax.

    Curt
     
  16. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Subject: Getting Shafted On Shot Costs!!!
    From: Hoosier Daddy
    Date: Thu, Jan 24, 2008 - 03:03 PM CT
    ... "the people selling it for 39.95 must be gouging the hell out us." ...


    Subject: Getting Shafted On Shot Costs!!!
    From: Hoosier Daddy
    Date: Thu, Jan 24, 2008 - 10:24 PM CT
    ... "I can buy all I want for 37.95 or have it mail order from Washington for the same price" ...



    Boy ... I thought the strong language of "gouging" would have been for far more than just $2.
     
  17. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Lump....it's all relative (and not in human terms)!

    Curt
     
  18. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Its all relative? Dang ... that shot must come from West Virginia than.
     
  19. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Hoosier has a point.

    Gouging is when gas goes up a "dollar" a gallon, causing the transport costs to raise by $10-$25 (do the mileage/cost calc.) a trip and they tell everyone "Gas went up so we have a surcharge of $10/$25." Only they charge it to everyone for every delivery even though they're doing multiples.

    Guy charged me an extra $25 "because gas was so high" for a load of 6 ton of rock. The quarry, round trip is 12 miles from my house. How many gallons of fuel does it take to go 12 miles? 2? 3? tops? 3 X 1 extra dollars sure doesn't come out to $25. Also the price hadn't increased by anywhere near a dollar either. It's called gouging.

    Then they want to say it's not just gas, it's wear and tear on the vehicle. Okay, but gas price increases are given as the "reason" for the surcharge. Wear and tear/maintenance doesn't jump $0.30 per unit (35%) overnight, unless, I guess, the mechanic's "Gas went up so we have a surcharge of $10/$25."


    "That's just business." "If you don't like it, don't pay it."

    I don't. Sheesh. Do the math. It'll make you want to puke.
     
  20. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    The Bass Pro Shop in Harrisburg has Lawrence chilled shot for the partry sum of $58.99 a bag - "Magnum" grade is $63.99 - and I don't think there is a limit on how many bags you can buy, but I suggest calling ahead to make sure ;).

    The department manager, who I've known for probably 30 years, told me that although the lead market is dropping and their price is no longer remotely competitive, the corporate office won't allow the stores to drop the selling price yet.

    Lots of dust on those bags.

    Ed
     
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